"God Wills It"

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by tyndale1946, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II makes perhaps the most influential speech of the Middle Ages, giving rise to the Crusades by calling all Christians in Europe to war against Muslims in order to reclaim the Holy Land, with a cry of “Deus vult!” or “God wills it!”
    Born Odo of Lagery in 1042, Urban was a protege of the great reformer Pope Gregory VII. Like Gregory, he made internal reform his main focus, railing against simony (the selling of church offices) and other clerical abuses prevalent during the Middle Ages. Urban showed himself to be an adept and powerful cleric, and when he was elected pope in 1088, he applied his statecraft to weakening support for his rivals, notably Clement III.
    By the end of the 11th century, the Holy Land—the area now commonly referred to as the Middle East—had become a point of conflict for European Christians. Since the 6th century, Christians frequently made pilgrimages to the birthplace of their religion, but when the Seljuk Turks took control of Jerusalem, Christians were barred from the Holy City. When the Turks then threatened to invade the Byzantine Empire and take Constantinople, Byzantine Emperor Alexius I made a special appeal to Urban for help. This was not the first appeal of its kind, but it came at an important time for Urban. Wanting to reinforce the power of the papacy, Urban seized the opportunity to unite Christian Europe under him as he fought to take back the Holy Land from the Turks.
    At the Council of Clermont, in France, at which several hundred clerics and noblemen gathered, Urban delivered a rousing speech summoning rich and poor alike to stop their in-fighting and embark on a righteous war to help their fellow Christians in the East and take back Jerusalem. Urban denigrated the Muslims, exaggerating stories of their anti-Christian acts, and promised absolution and remission of sins for all who died in the service of Christ.
    Urban’s war cry caught fire, mobilizing clerics to drum up support throughout Europe for the crusade against the Muslims. All told, between 60,000 and 100,000 people responded to Urban’s call to march on Jerusalem. Not all who responded did so out of piety: European nobles were tempted by the prospect of increased land holdings and riches to be gained from the conquest. These nobles were responsible for the death of a great many innocents both on the way to and in the Holy Land, absorbing the riches and estates of those they conveniently deemed opponents to their cause. Adding to the death toll was the inexperience and lack of discipline of the Christian peasants against the trained, professional armies of the Muslims. As a result, the Christians were initially beaten back, and only through sheer force of numbers were they eventually able to triumph.
    Urban died in 1099, two weeks after the fall of Jerusalem but before news of the Christian victory made it back to Europe. His was the first of seven major military campaigns fought over the next two centuries known as the Crusades, the bloody repercussions of which are still felt today. Urban was beatified by the Roman Catholic Church in 1881.

    After reading about this bloody atrocity against humanity in the name of Christianity... Christian conversion with a sword... Is it any wonder why those of other beliefs want to destroy us?... As always your thoughts are greatly appreciated... Brother Glen
     
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  2. BrotherJoseph

    BrotherJoseph
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    Brother Glen,

    I do not believe those declaring a jihad against us are doing so because of the crusades because if this was the case, why did they wait hundreds upon hundreds of years to do so? I think the reason is primarily three fold. First, their version of God's word, the Koran encourages jihad and murdering of infidel Christians and Jews alike so that they may inherit virgins in the afterlife for being a "martyr" (or when properly stated a "terrorist") Second, we are the most free and affluent country in the world and the world leader of Democracy, their culture puts rules and bondage on their citizens, especially the women who must mask themselves and are not permitted to drive and encourages theocracy, rather than Democracy, thus they view us as a threat. Third, while it is certainly true many in the United States are "Christian" by name only, it is an undeniable fact our nation was founded on Judea-Christian principles by Godly men and our country probably has more real Christians than any other in the world. Remember Jesus declared, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:9) and ".Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you" ( 1 John 3:13) They are children of the devil and just like righteous Abel was murdered by wicked Cain from the days of Genesis, so likewise now the children of the devil seek to kill the children of the Light, but they can only go so far as God wills. Make no mistake about it, we are not to blame. They are children of the bond woman whos ancestor is Ishmael, nevertheless what saith the scripture is there end, "Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman" (Galatians 4:30).

    Brother Joe
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    One must admit that is a prime piece of property over there that three different factions and maybe more have tried to get their hands on... We know it's split 3 ways maybe more... Jewish, Arabians, and Christians... Brother Glen
     
  4. robustheologian

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    Let me say this...I partly agree with BrotherJoseph. I don't believe those of other beliefs want to destroy us just because of the Crusades. However, I do believe their radicalism towards destroying us stems from the hypocritical arrogance often found in Christianity and Christian nations (if there is such a thing).

    While I agree with your first point, it would be accurate to say that in light of the Crusades Brother Glen mentioned, that Christians were terrorists long before the modern terrorism of Islam then. Muslims are killing in the name of "God", Christians killed in the name of God. Your second point is true in a lot of Muslim countries but not all (i.e. ) and the culture here (and Christian culture) puts rules and bondage on it's citizens. On your third point, can't really agree at all with that....Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, slavery, Jim Crow.

    Great discussion though Brother Glen.
     
  5. BrotherJoseph

    BrotherJoseph
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    '
    Brother Robust, I think the distinction needs to be made between those called "Christians" in name and those who really are Christians. Jesus told us, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." I do not believe the Catholics who killed people in the crusades pass the test of being true Christians in either doctrine or practice. The other difference is the Muslim's Koran has verses advocating jihad, but our Bible has no such verses to kill infidels. Thus, one could make an argument that those Muslims carrying out the jihad our actually following the practices of Mohammed and Islam's teachings in their holy book and are indeed therefore not disqualified to be classified as "Muslims", albeit as the phrase that is popularized today in the media of "radical Islamic terrorism" may be more appropriate.


    The principles laid out in the constitution and by our founding fathers in the government, though far from perfect, were founded on Judea Christian values. For example, the separation of powers between the executive, legislative, and judicial was due to the founding fathers belief in the depravity of man, therefore they did not want to put all the power in one branch lest that branch get corrupt. Many of the founding fathers (not Jefferson) were puritans, Calvinists, etc. The original settlers the Pilgrims were Christians seeking refuge from religious persecution, The Declaration of Independence mentions God four times, "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God..., "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights...", "appearing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions", and "with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence...". The Mayflower Compact written by the Pilgrims that became the cornerstone of the Constitution states, "Having undertaken for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith...".

    The Bible use to be a central school textbook used in our public schools until I believe the 1900s. Matter of fact in1781 Congress approved the purchase of Bibles to be used in schools.
    Morever, during the earlier years of our country we had the highest literacy rate in the word because the Puritans wanted their children to be able to read their Bibles. The abolition of slavery was largerly a Christian movement. Most of those fighting the slave trade were Christians, as were the conductors of the Underground Railroad. The activites of the civil rights movement used the churches as the base for their work. People sometime forget that Dr. Marin Luther King Jr. was the Reverend Dr. King, a Baptist minister and headed the Southern Christian Leadership conference. I do not deny the founding fathers did grave evil in engaging in slavery, but this does not mean they were not Christians. There were slave owners in Paul's time, one was the Christian Philemon who Paul wrote to and told him to accept back his slave Onesimus as a "brother beloved". This certainly doesn't mean we can conclude Paul and Philemon the slave owner were not Christian.

    I got most of the above information from books written by Dr. D. James Kennedy. I would recommend the books if you have the money and time. They are What if The Bible Had Never Been Written? and What if America Were a Christian Nation Again? Both books are by the late Calvinist preacher D. James Kennedy. I don't agree with him in that I believe he propagates gospel regeneration (it has been a long time sine I read those books), but that isn't the central themes of the books, thus they are worth a read.
     
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  6. BrotherJoseph

    BrotherJoseph
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    The difference is the US doesn't steal or take the oil though they spend perhaps billions to fight for the oppressed, freedom, and to defeat terrorism. The only US politician I know of that propagates the idea that we should take the oil from the land from the ISIS fighters for our own use is Donald Trump.
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I heard a preacher one time say about the sons of Ismael... That they would rather blow up the oil wells than let anyone have it... I believe those were Arabians that was Arrafats bunch way before ISIS even existed... Brother Glen
     

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