God's Devil

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Martin Luther coined the phrase.

    He actually said, "The devil is God's ape," if I am not mistaken.

    Take this test below and see if you agree with Luther.

     
    #1 Luke2427, Jan 10, 2011
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  2. sag38

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    With you, why does everything from United States history to doctrine on the devil have to fit into your neat little calvinistic box?
     
  3. Luke2427

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    If you are not going to participate in the subject matter of the thread, why don't you pm me remarks like these? I will be glad to answer them in a pm.
     
  4. sag38

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    Just pointing out a bad habit. Carry on!
     
  5. Luke2427

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    Which is not the subject of this thread and is therefore misplaced.

    Why don't you justify your trolling by taking the test?
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    #6 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 10, 2011
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  7. Luke2427

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    Yes- his servant that is, not the Charlie Daniel's part... although...
     
  8. Humblesmith

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    Luke:
    Just to get some clarification........

    In another thread, you said "When Adam ate the fruit, God moved his jaw muscles." And when someone asked you whether you truly meant that God was the direct cause of someone molesting, murdering, and dismembering a child, you responded with yes, that is what you were saying.

    Here you appear to be saying that God can use evil acts for his own good purposes, which is very different from the first statements.

    If you are saying that 1) evil exists and God knows it will exist and works it into his plan for a greater good, then you have an orthodox position that has been taught for quite a long time. If you are saying 2) that God is the direct planner, doer, and cause of evil, to the point of moving the muscles of a murderer and rapist, causing these acts directly, then you are a blasphemer and a heretic, and need to repent and return to Christianity.

    Please clarify which is what you believe.
     
  9. matt wade

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    My teacher Luke has taught me that God is the one that caused Satan to rebel in the first place. God knew that He needed an enemy, so He made Satan rebel so that He would have that enemy. It's all for God's Glory, because by seeing how evil Satan is, we can see how much better God is! Thank God that He made the Devil!
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    My teacher :laugh: My <snip>!:tongue3:
     
  11. slave 4 Christ

    slave 4 Christ
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    (I Thess. 5:18)
    (18) in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. (NASB)

    I commend you sir. It takes much spiritual "maturity" to thank God for the devil.
     
  12. Robert Snow

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    Luke has been asked this question often, but he thus far will not answer. He doesn't seem to realize that everything in God's Word doesn't have to do with Calvinism.

    I would really like to see an answer to this question.
     
  13. Don

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    Great. Now that song is stuck in my head. Thanks heaps.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  14. psalms109:31

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    Satan

    The devil constantly accuses us before God and God does send him to test us.

    One day I was thinking about why satan hates us so much with a burning rage and his fall, I thought of this story that you can do whatever with.

    Lucifer and some of the angels was thinking pretty high of themselves.

    So as God was preparing the place for humans, Satan didn't like it. He was telling the other Angels we are God's greatest creation, He doesn't need to create these humans, there will be no one who worships Him more than us or love Him more.

    So God hearing these things went before them and said who speaks up against my will, and Lucifer stands proudly and say's there is no need to create those humans, you have us.

    He said you have exulted yourself above me, those who are with him stand with Lucifer, those who are with me stand with my Son. A third of the angels stood with Lucifer and God cast them down.

    Satan blames us for being cast down and is out to prove to God that we should of never been created and accuses us night and day.

    I am not a great story teller, but why do you think Satan hates us so much?
     
    #14 psalms109:31, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2011
  15. HankD

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    Jealousy. Angels are nowhere said to be made in the image and likeness of God not even Lucifer.

    HankD
     
  16. psalms109:31

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    If man can be referred to like Luicifer in his fallen state the devil then I have no problem with referring the devil as us in our fallen state.

    Ezekiel 28
    A Prophecy Against the King of Tyre
    1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
    “‘In the pride of your heart
    you say, “I am a god;
    I sit on the throne of a god
    in the heart of the seas.”
    But you are a mere mortal and not a god,
    though you think you are as wise as a god.
    3 Are you wiser than Daniel?
    Is no secret hidden from you?
    4 By your wisdom and understanding
    you have gained wealth for yourself
    and amassed gold and silver
    in your treasuries.
    5 By your great skill in trading
    you have increased your wealth,
    and because of your wealth
    your heart has grown proud.

    6 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:

    “‘Because you think you are wise,
    as wise as a god,
    7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
    the most ruthless of nations;
    they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
    and pierce your shining splendor.
    8 They will bring you down to the pit,
    and you will die a violent death
    in the heart of the seas.
    9 Will you then say, “I am a god,”
    in the presence of those who kill you?
    You will be but a mortal, not a god,
    in the hands of those who slay you.
    10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
    at the hands of foreigners.

    I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.’”

    11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

    “‘You were the seal of perfection,
    full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
    13 You were in Eden,
    the garden of God;
    every precious stone adorned you:
    carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
    topaz, onyx and jasper,
    lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
    Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
    on the day you were created they were prepared.
    14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
    for so I ordained you.
    You were on the holy mount of God;
    you walked among the fiery stones.
    15 You were blameless in your ways
    from the day you were created
    till wickedness was found in you.

    My story is just a parable you can do with it what you want to.
     
  17. Grace&Truth

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    Then on top of that, God Elects some to go to Hell and some to go to Heaven also, to show what a Great God He is and to bring glory to Himself....Amazing, its a wonder that everyone just does not see the truth in all of this.:godisgood:
     
  18. sag38

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    Which is not the subject of this thread and is therefore misplaced.

    Why don't you justify your trolling by taking the test?


    I took the test and I agree that God does use Satan but not from such a fatalistic interpretation as you present. It seems that you would fit in well at FBC Corinth. Some are of Apollos, some are of Peter, and you are of Calvin. Now about my supposed trolling. I asked you a legitimate question that is related to the thread. If you refuse to see your consistent behavior for what it is then that is not my problem. I simply exercised my right to make a legitimate point.
     
  19. matt wade

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    You are correct. Based on the teaching of brother Luke, God chooses to torment some men for eternity, not because of the choices that man has made in life, but God torments those men simply because it pleases God. It pleases God to torment men.
     
  20. Luke2427

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    I did not say "direct".

    But do you deny that the power to chew the forbidden fruit was God's? Because omnipotence means that there is no power to do anything that is not God's.

    Evil didn't create itself. Lucifer nor Adam had the power to create anything ex nihilo. God ultimately "caused" it by withdrawing his goodness.
    Just as light "causes" darkness by withdrawing itself from a room, so God "caused" evil to exist by withdrawing his goodness from Lucifer, Adam, etc...

    It would never have been possible for Lucifer to revolt if God had kept him filled with his own perfect goodness. It was absolutely necessary for God to withdraw his goodness from Adam in order for Adam to be able to sin.

    Did God FORCE Lucifer to revolt? No. But his revolt was a result of God withdrawing his goodness from the heart of Lucifer and leaving Lucifer to himself.

    Did God FORCE Adam to sin? No. But sin cannot dwell in the presence of God's holy goodness and in order for Adam to be able to sin God had to withdraw it from him.

    What power did Adam and Lucifer utilize to rebel? There is only one source of power in and above the universe- God's.

    Did Lucifer and Adam make choices uncompelled? Absolutely. Was god pleased with them for the choices they made? He was not pleased with them that they chose what they chose. Did God will it? Yes.

    Allow me to illustrate:

    My oldest son is 7. He has a hard time focusing on his assignments. I am trying to teach him to focus and get done in a timely manner. His teacher sent home numerous worksheets to aid this endeavor. I told him the other night, "Rick, take this sheet and go to the homework room. You have 20 minutes to get it done. Stay focused and that should be no problem. If you get this sheet done in 20 minutes you can go outside and play and not have to do any more this evening."

    But here is what I really wanted. I wanted him to do several sheets that night so that he could get practice. And here is what I KNEW: I knew he would let his mind wander and not get the work done on time. I knew that without me standing over him KEEPING him focused he would fail. I was right.

    Was I pleased with his choice to let his mind wander? No. Absolutely not. I am not pleased that he chooses not to stay focused. I am disappointed in him. But did I will that he have other sheets to do that night? Yes. Absolutely.

    God was not pleased with Adam for choosing what he chose. But God willed that sin come into the world. He had a noble purpose for it just I had a noble purpose for willing that my son fail. God knew that without Him driving Adam to do right that he would do wrong.

    And by that failure in Eden's Garden God would get immeasurable glory by the great success in Gethsemane's Garden.
     

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