God's love, is it equal for everyone???

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Greektim, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Greektim

    Greektim
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    Before this thread deteriorates into a general Calvie vs. non-Calvie debate (which I am sure it will), what exegetical proof do you offer to make the claim of God's love being equal to all humans or special to the elect???
     
  2. Van

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    John 3:16 says God so loved the world that He gave His Son. John always uses the Greek word translated world to refer to mankind or the corrupt system of fallen mankind.

    1 John 2:2 says Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation not only for us but also for the whole world, again referring to all mankind.

    Because the church is taken, chosen, from mankind, the scripture that says Christ died for the church, does not exclude mankind, Christ died for mankind including the church.

    Scripture says God hates sinners and that He demonstrated His loved for us while we were sinners, thus God simultaneously loves and hates us. Thus His love is not excluded by our sinful action in that He begs us to be reconciled.

    Scripture makes no claim of "equal" love, but does claim God's love provides the opportunity for salvation to all mankind.
     
    #2 Van, Feb 22, 2013
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  3. psalms109:31

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    Luke 6

    Love for Enemies

    27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

    32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

    Acts 4:12
    Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

    Matthew 5
    Love for Enemies

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
     
    #3 psalms109:31, Feb 22, 2013
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  4. salzer mtn

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    Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son he recieveth. In this verse the Lord loveth only those he chasteneth, and in verse eight the Lord don't chastise everyone. Chastisement is a mark of sonship that is applied only to those he loves. In chapter eleven of John verse three Martha and Mary sent word to Jesus, Lord, behold whom thou lovest is sick. If Christ loved the whole world then this message had no meaning as to who was sick. John 14; 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of the father, and i will love him and manifest myself unto him. John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own, which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. Notice the scripture didn't say, having loved everyone in the world.
     
    #4 salzer mtn, Feb 22, 2013
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  5. psalms109:31

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    God so loved the world that He sent His Son, not like He loves His own but as who ever believes in Jesus will be saved

    Matthew 11:
    11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence,and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.


    Unfortunately people still live like before the cross and all God did for sinners the wicked mankind through His Son.

    Praise God Jesus came to save sinners wicked men like me. I will never take away the same hope I have from a sinner like me.
     
    #5 psalms109:31, Feb 22, 2013
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  6. kyredneck

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    When I consider the apostle John I have to conclude that He even has favorites among His elect.
     
  7. HisWitness

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    we all have favorites--the ones who are close to us are our favorites--the ones we dont know we still love,but they are not close to us :)
     
  8. salzer mtn

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    When St. John 3:16 is read most people assume that the word world means everyone and excludes no one. One needs to keep in mind Christ was speaking to a Jew and the Jews were predudice against the gentiles. The Jews believed no nation except they, had any rights or benifits from God but them. This is why in St. Luke 4:25-29 the Jews were ready to cast Christ headlong over a clift because he chose or elected to show mercy to a leper, Naaman, the Syrian and a widow of Sarepta and passed by all the lepers and widows in Israel. In John 3:16 Christ was telling the nation of Isael that his love goes behond them to a people out of every nation, kindred and tongue. He loves all without distinction but not all without exception. In the scripture the word world can mean a planet, a system, or a people; elect and non-elect.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    Yes, and Christ had His:

    23 There was at the table reclining in Jesus` bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
    24 Simon Peter therefore beckoneth to him, and saith unto him, Tell us who it is of whom he speaketh.
    25 He leaning back, as he was, on Jesus` breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it? Jn 13

    When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Jn 19:26

    She runneth therefore, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we know not where they have laid him. Jn 20:2

    7 That disciple therefore whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his coat about him (for he was naked), and cast himself into the sea.
    20 Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; who also leaned back on his breast at the supper, and said, Lord, who is he that betrayeth thee?
    21 Peter therefore seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
    22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. Jn 21
     
  10. HisWitness

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    God didnt Love one of his children more than the otherone--that would limit the Love of God--God's love is the same towards all---BUT all his children may not be as close to him as another one may be :)
     
  11. kyredneck

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    Sigh, you've a very hard head....

    ....believe what you want.
     
  12. salzer mtn

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    Prov 6:16-19 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea seven are an abomination to him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. These things seem to me limit the love of God. Psa 5:5 Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
     
  13. psalms109:31

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    I believe most people who believe this stuff need to listen to Spurgeon in my signature. Who actually believe his Calvinism is the Gospel not your Calvinism. He did not reconcile scripture into his own understanding. I myself do not listen to anyone who has to change or mold scripture and make the Holy Spirit say something He did not. If He meant the elect He would of said it, if He meant all sorts of people He would of said that. You all can believe what you want to, but God said we should love our enemies to be perfect as He is perfect.

    God loved the world not limited to a man's understanding of His world but God's understanding what the world is that He sent His Son.

    You do have the right to believe as you will, you have a free agency.
     
    #13 psalms109:31, Feb 22, 2013
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  14. kyredneck

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    This is a very good explanation, and you may well be right. Thanks.
     
  15. salzer mtn

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    Are you perfect ? If thou wilt be pefect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, Matt 19:21 If your serious about being perfect i will send you my address and wait for the check. :thumbsup:
     
    #15 salzer mtn, Feb 22, 2013
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  16. psalms109:31

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    I praise God that Jesus came to save a wicked sinner like me. Was I not the one God hated?

    Are you perfect able to say something the Holy Spirit did not said in His word that He loved the world?
     
    #16 psalms109:31, Feb 22, 2013
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  17. quantumfaith

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    That is a neat observation Salzer, but since Christ has the Jews been "unlected" and now Gentiles have been granted the same right and privileges to be "in relation" to God. Is that sort of the point of the New Covenant?
     
  18. salzer mtn

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    in John 3:16 If God loves the world meaning every person that's in the world and every person that has ever been in the world then how are we going to interpretate the scripture in St. John 17:9 when Christ said, i pray not for the world ? Why would he die for all man kind and then refuse to pray for all mankind ? How do you reconcile these two verses ?
     
  19. psalms109:31

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    Universalism is not preached so you can't change the word. It is that He sent His Son, not that they will be saved.

    Would you be perfect as God to send your son to die for your enemy, all of us can't live up to God standard, so we have to depend on His Son to save us.

    So that who ever believes in His Son will be saved, that is not universalism because not everyone will believe only those who come to the knowledge of the truth Jesus. I don't have reconcile or understand His word, but believe it and He will open my eyes.
     
    #19 psalms109:31, Feb 22, 2013
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  20. salzer mtn

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    The bottom line between you and i is, Gods love to a lost sinner will make itself manifest to him in time and give him every thing he needs to lay hold of Christ. To a person that believes God loves everyone, Gods love has no meaning because there is nothing more that springs forth from this love to you than it does to people in hell.
     

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