God's love

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gina B, Mar 17, 2003.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Does God love everyone in the world, unconditionally? [​IMG]
     
  2. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, God cannot love the nature of a sinner. This is the object of the wrath of God and not the person. Here, IMO is the failure of man to understand the depth of God's love. We can only view it in proportions equal to our own love and often this is based on emotions. God's love is not emotionally driven.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  3. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    [​IMG] The question was asked on another board and everyone seemed appalled at the thought that the answer might be no. After I said it nobody else posted, lol, so I thought I'd ask here and see what other people said.
    The question was approached in the context that if God loves unconditionally you have to believe in universal salvation, if no you have to believe in election.
    Gina
     
  4. russell55

    russell55
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina,

    If you are talking about redemptive love, then God loves some redemptively without condition. It's that unconditional redemptive love that election comes from.

    If you are talking about the sort of love mentioned in Matthew 5:43ff, well, it seems to me that that love must also be unconditional, since that sort of love is shown equally to the just and the unjust.

    Remember, we love Him because He first loved us. God's love is not in response to our love, but our love is in response to His.
     
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    With ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY HE does love every human equally, because he provides His Love for the Just and Unjust alike, in equal measure, and for the same purpose...That they love Him! He loved each and everyone of us first, so that we would learn to love him.

    Not all will respond in the manner that brings them salvation from condemnation.
     
  6. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Yelsew,

    I tried to save you a seat, I knew you'd be here sooner or later.

    Bro.Dallas :D
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    6,179
    Likes Received:
    226
    Well I guess he didn't love us enough if he put our Salvation in our hands :eek: ... Now before everyone jumps down my throat... Let us make man in our image... You all know the rest of the story... Still think the love of God is conditional :confused: ... Conditional on the blood and sacrifice of Christ Jesus... Whereby all conditions are met for his children... The elect!... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist [​IMG]
     
  8. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Tyndale, you fail to acknowledge that non-Calvinists recognize that ALL the work of Salvation was performed and completed by God, and that there is nothing left for man but to accept or reject God's work. AND EACH MAN MUST MAKE THAT DECISION FOR HIMSELF.
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tyndale, you fail to acknowledge that non-Calvinists recognize that ALL the work of Salvation was performed and completed by God, and that there is nothing left for man but to accept or reject God's work. AND EACH MAN MUST MAKE THAT DECISION FOR HIMSELF. </font>[/QUOTE]If non-Calvinists recognize all the work was performed and completed by God, then there is not even left the acceptance, nor the rejection. Acknowledge HIM in all your ways.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. absturzen

    absturzen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who do you know that has DECIDED to go to hell knowing its painful and eternal reality?

    [ March 18, 2003, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: absturzen ]
     
  11. Aki

    Aki
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    classification of love is important here. there is the personal and impersonal love. with personal love, God loves a person for what the person has. in humans, we apply this to our husband/wife, son/daughter, etc. we love them because of who they are.

    with impersonal love, God loves people because of who God is.

    consider now John 3:16. in there it is said that God loves the world, or the whole human race. but then nothing in each person is worthy to qualify for God's love, each one being sinners. but then God loves the world. why? because God's basis of love with man in that passage is not man or his qualities, but because God is love. God simply chose to love the world, not because He saw humans lovable.

    now let's move to a person who is saved. at this point a believer is declared righteous. and since God loves His own righteousness, there is already in the believer a basis for God to love Him. thus, with every saved person, God treats them with personal love.

    in another view, we should consider God's attributes. God's love cannot contradict His righteousness and justice. thus, God's love cannot save any person, since everyone is a sinner, not passing God's standard of righteousness and worthy of condemnation with regards to God's justice.

    God's love, however, still has its place - it's in John 3:16. dying on the cross, Jesus Christ satisfied God the Father's righteousness and justice. with this, salvation was available for each person.

    therefore, to answer the quesion: Does God love everyone in the world, unconditionally? i say yes, but wih impersonal love.

    i hope i've given a bit of help [​IMG]
     
  12. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Who do you know that has DECIDED to go to hell knowing its painful and eternal reality? </font>[/QUOTE]Acceptance of God's gift: There is active and there is passive.

    One cannot passively accept, Acceptance can only be active.

    One can passively reject by not actively accepting.
     
  13. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    AKI,
    God does not love a person for what the person has! God loves his created man whom He made in his own image.

    God is not love! If God is love, Love is God! Love is something that God possesses and that He does. God loves his Created man whom He made in his own image. Not just one man, but all mankind. Man is the only part of God's whole creation that He made with the ability to communicate with the creator. All of God's creation "hears" God, but man is the only part of creation that talks to God.

    Excuse me? In John 3:16 God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, the one who came to seek and to save that which is lost, and to be the Sacrificial Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world (all mankind). God loved us before we knew him. He does not bestow "special love" on those who believe in him, His love is consistent and eternal. Granted there are instances in scripture that speak of God loving one and not another, but those are exceptions. He would not have provided the atonement for man's sins if He did not love all equally.

    It is because of God's love for us that he provided the atonement for our sins, and gave us a way to be forgiven through confession, and if that isn't love, I dare you to hear the confessions of millions of people all simultaneously and for 24hours a day. NOW that's Love!

    God's love is always appropriate, no matter how unworthy the recipient!

    I do not find "God's impersonal love" in scripture. I do find God's unmerited love.
     
  14. Aki

    Aki
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew:

    it's fine to respond in a portion-by-portion approach, as done many times at this board. with what you did above, however, you've divided what i wrote and replied only to that portion and make it look incorrect, when in fact i have things thereafter which are necessary to consider before making any reply. you considered a portion, without looking at the big picture, or with what i believe in a whole, and replied inappropriately. this is what i mean:

    God does not love a person for what the person has! God loves his created man whom He made in his own image. </font>[/QUOTE]i know that, in fact, i said that. but you seem to have replied too quickly without consideration of what may be the big picture of belief of the people you are discussing with.

    wrong, Yelsew. God is love, as stated in I John 4:8 (He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.)

    This is what a commentary has to partially say about I John 4:8: - "There is no Greek article to love, but to God; therefore we cannot translate, Love is God. God is fundamentally and essentially LOVE:..." (Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary)

    this is a reply to a wrong concept, something i did not say. with impersonal love, God loves each person equally thus giving each person the chance to be saved. unbelievers, though, cannot recieve God's personal love for they have nothing in themselves which is lovable. the believer, on the other hand, have Christ's righteousness, which God loves.

    ok, i'm convinced that it is my lack of explanation that got me this reply. but to explain my case, though God loves a person, he cannot simply say "Ok, I love you, so you are now saved". my point is God's love cannot simply do that, for such will violate God's rigtheousness and justice.
     
  15. romanbear

    romanbear
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Gina; [​IMG]
    God loves the whole world and that means everyone in it. He gave His only begotten son to die for everyone. He took the first step for our Salvation. All we have to do is accept it. I'd say it was unconditional love because we were all in sin. His son died to save the wretched. Even me.
    Romanbear
     
  16. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Roman Bear, two questions for now.

    1. Is God still loving unconditionally while he's throwing those that don't love him back in hell to burn for eternity?

    2. Was the sacrifice completely unconditional, or do you have to do something for it to be effective?
     
  17. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do Calvinist assume that entrance into the new covenant in unconditional?

    God's covenants have always had conditions before, why would that change?

    The condition is faith. You must believe. Is that worthy of boasting, not according to Paul in Romans 3:27-31. Faith is set in contrast to the works of the law which is what Jews believed was the means of entrance, but in actuality it was faith.

    Man's salvation is conditioned upon their willingness to accept it! (Matt. 23:37) Just as our forgivness is apparently conditioned upon our willingness to forgive others as seen in several passages.

    If there are no conditions why is the scripture give us conditions?
     
  18. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    For some Calvinists they view God as without emotions. Calvin portrayed God more as One who is vengeful and hateful rather than Him being loving and caring.

    Christ's love is unconditional toward all sinners. He hates their sin but loves the person/soul of that which can upon their reception of Christ, glorify the Lamb of God.

    Our Bible reads, 'God not only loved the world, but rather, God so love the world. . . ' The tiny word was placed in there for a reason. 'houtos' {so}. He so loved the world that whoever believes in Him will not perish . . . ' [John 3:16] The word, 'so', suggests an intensity of His
    Divine love toward the lost ones.

    The word love, all by itself, is one of endearment and affection not of a sexual or human level of love but that of a Divine love for His created and yet sinful beings.
     
  19. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Tyndale, you fail to acknowledge that non-Calvinists recognize that ALL the work of Salvation was performed and completed by God, and that there is nothing left for man but to accept or reject God's work. AND EACH MAN MUST MAKE THAT DECISION FOR HIMSELF. </font>[/QUOTE]If non-Calvinists recognize all the work was performed and completed by God, then there is not even left the acceptance, nor the rejection. Acknowledge HIM in all your ways.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
    </font>[/QUOTE]AH! But without us choosing to accept or reject, there is no salvation, for there is no salvation by any other name under heaven. And Believing is NOT A WORK. Afterall who can boast about believing? I can hear it now, I got to heaven under my own power, I believed in Jesus! The response is, "so what, that's how we all got here". Nothing to boast about!
     
  20. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    For all you spout about love, I wish you'd develop some affection for the truth.
     

Share This Page

Loading...