1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

God's Plan For The Ages

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Me4Him, Sep 16, 2005.

Top Posters
Page 3 of 6
  1. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    0
    IF God is finished with Israel under the "Law and prophet" system of Leadership, then why are the "TWO WITNESSES" (Moses, Law giver/Eliajh, prophet) send to Israel during the Tribulation period??


    Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


    Might I suggest using the "COMFORTER" to teach/interpret the scripture, "HE" makes it "Simple" and is "NEVER" wrong. ;)
     
    #41 Me4Him, Sep 22, 2005
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Brother ascund -- Preach it! [​IMG]
     
    #42 Ed Edwards, Sep 22, 2005
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    AMen, Brother Me4Him - Preach it! [​IMG]

    Romans 11:6-7,11 (KJV1769):
    6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
    otherwise grace is no more grace.
    But if it be of works, then is it no more grace:
    otherwise work is no more work.
    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained
    that which he seeketh for; but the election
    hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
    ...
    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they
    should fall? God forbid: but rather through
    their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
    for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Why would God provoke Israeli to jealousy if
    He didn't intend to save them someday?
     
    #43 Ed Edwards, Sep 22, 2005
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is noting in the chart to prompt such a question. So you are out of order in two meanings of 'order'.

    BTW, the answer to your question is NO.
     
    #44 Ed Edwards, Sep 22, 2005
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    Begging your pardon Ed but the chart states that on day 4
    Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Son of God. It would seem to be in order for you to be more careful in what you post.
     
    #45 OldRegular, Sep 22, 2005
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    I don't see in the passage of Scripture that you quote where the two witnesses are identified. How did you come up with the names Moses, Law giver/Eliajh, prophet????
     
    #46 OldRegular, Sep 22, 2005
  7. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    7
    The problem with that suggestion is that many claim to be using the "Comforter" to teach/interpret Scripture yet arrive at often diametrically opposed conclusions. "He" doesn't inspire contradictions.
     
    #47 Doubting Thomas, Sep 22, 2005
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    The problem with that suggestion is that many claim to be using the "Comforter" to teach/interpret Scripture yet arrive at often diametrically opposed conclusions. "He" doesn't inspire contradictions. </font>[/QUOTE]...then we use the "comforter" to discern what is being taught by those with diametrically opposed conclusions. At any rate, we do not rely on man, but God.
     
    #48 webdog, Sep 22, 2005
  9. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    7
    What does that mean exactly, and how does that answer solve the problem of two (or more) people claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit coming up with mutually conflicting interpretations? How is it helpful to discern a difference if one doesn't know who's right simply based on the claim of being led by the Spirit? Truth is not mutually contradictory--at least one of those who claims to be being led by the Spirit has an incorrect interpretation and thus an invalid claim. How do you know who is correct without begging the question?
     
    #49 Doubting Thomas, Sep 22, 2005
  10. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    1
    Old Regular,

    It was posted...

    And you said...

    Where in the world do you get the idea that the chart is saying Jesus Christ was created???

    It should be clear that what is being said is that the Sun, Moon, and Stars were created, and those three are prophetic representaions of Christ, the church, and children of God.

    How could you think it meant Jesus was created when the scriptures indicate that Jesus Christ is the one doing the creating?

    God bless,

    Mike
     
    #50 D28guy, Sep 22, 2005
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    What does that mean exactly, and how does that answer solve the problem of two (or more) people claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit coming up with mutually conflicting interpretations? How is it helpful to discern a difference if one doesn't know who's right simply based on the claim of being led by the Spirit? Truth is not mutually contradictory--at least one of those who claims to be being led by the Spirit has an incorrect interpretation and thus an invalid claim. How do you know who is correct without begging the question? </font>[/QUOTE]If it lines up with scripture (righlty dividing the truth), and not most, but all scripture . For instance, there are numerous scholars who hold to reformed theology, some with PHD's. There are great pastors that do, too. Sometimes they twist the scripture to fit theology, instead of the opposite. When comparing their theology to scripture, it can be refuted in some areas. This doesn't mean in all areas, but some do not pass the test. Every reformer I know has come to their belief's from reading the work of other reformers. I don't believe anyone has been saved by believing reformed theology initially(I know some will deny this).
     
    #51 webdog, Sep 22, 2005
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    And you said...

    Where in the world do you get the idea that the chart is saying Jesus Christ was created???

    It should be clear that what is being said is that the Sun, Moon, and Stars were created, and those three are prophetic representaions of Christ, the church, and children of God.

    How could you think it meant Jesus was created when the scriptures indicate that Jesus Christ is the one doing the creating?

    God bless,

    Mike     </font>[/QUOTE]I questioned what was posted!

    Also to say that
    borders on pagan nonsense.
     
    #52 OldRegular, Sep 22, 2005
  13. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    7
    But everyone claims their theological system lines up with all of Scripture. (Or else, if they believed otherwise, they wouldn't hold to that particular system!) Calvinists, Arminians, and curious hybrids all claim that their systems line up with all of Scripture and are "Spirit led". But all can't be right. Who is to say whose system lines up with "all of Scripture" without begging the question of interpretation? Everyone is sure that his particular one lines up with all of Scripture and that the others do not. But all can't be right.
     
    #53 Doubting Thomas, Sep 22, 2005
  14. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    1
    RegularBaptist,

    In referance to this...

    You said...

    What you are claiming is nonsense.

    I'm not saying I agree with everything in the material being posted. I can tell that much of it I do agree with, but I've just sort of skimmed through it so I dont know if I agree with everything.

    But to have a conviction that one thing is a prophetic "type" or "symbol" of a different thing is not a pagan idea at all. God has done that very thing multitudes of times in the scriptures.

    What would be coming from paganism would be worshipping the sun, moon, or stars.

    Not believing they prophetically represent or point to something else.

    Grace and peace,

    Mike
     
    #54 D28guy, Sep 22, 2005
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    D28guy

    Many pagan religions were based on worship of the Sun, the Moon, or the Stars.

    The Chinese used to worship dogs. Can you find a type for this. God did create dogs.

    Enough said.
     
    #55 OldRegular, Sep 22, 2005
  16. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't see in the passage of Scripture that you quote where the two witnesses are identified. How did you come up with the names Moses, Law giver/Eliajh, prophet???? </font>[/QUOTE]Go back to the original post, chart "Spiritual vs. Literal", read that "text".

    There's only "TWO" "Olives trees", "TWO" candles sticks, not "three".

    Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

    12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

    13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

    14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

    Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    "WHO WERE THE TWO WHO APPEARED WITH JESUS"???

    Mt 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias (Elijah) talking with him.
     
    #56 Me4Him, Sep 22, 2005
  17. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    0
    borders on pagan nonsense. </font>[/QUOTE]Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;

    You have to understand what the "SYMBOLS" in scripture mean before you can understand it's meaning.

    Ge 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

    Scripture now tell you what these "SYMBOLS" represent.

    Ge 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed?

    Shall I (Father/sun
    and thy mother (moon/any assemble of God's people, Jew/Gentile, church is "Jesus's "BRIDE".)
    and thy brethren (stars)

    indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

    This earth, and all it's "SYSTEMS" are pattern after the "Spiritual".

    Just as the "MOON" gets it's "LIGHT" from the "SUN" and reflects it to a "world in darkness", so does the Church, "moon", but it's SUN is spelled "SON", as in Jesus.


    God isn't referring to the "Natural stars" in the following passages.

    Ge 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven,

    Ps 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

    And why shouldn't he know all their names, he wrote all their names in the "Lamb's book of Life".

    Now that you know what the Sun/moon/stars represents, read this verse.

    Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (Trib period)

    The "LIGHT" of all seven spirits of God will be "FOCUSED" on Israel for a time during the trib, and Israel will "SHINE" (Miracles/exploits) with the strength of Jesus.

    Re 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God,

    Da 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

    However, toward the last of the trib, the "LIGHT" will go out.

    Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

    10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

    Mr 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

    The "literal darkness" that descends on the earth is the manifestation of a "Spiritual darkness", The AC killing everyone, Jesus having to shorten those days.

    Ac 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,

    Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,

    These "physical events" described are really manifestations of "Spiritual events", like water baptism manifest a "spiritual Baptism".

    [ September 22, 2005, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Me4Him ]
     
    #57 Me4Him, Sep 22, 2005
  18. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #58 Me4Him, Sep 22, 2005
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Brother Me4Him -- You rock* [​IMG]

    note: * as in 'Jesus rock o' my soul',
    the solid rock, the Rock of Ages,
     
    #59 Ed Edwards, Sep 22, 2005
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    According to your false interpretation you would have the Son of God bowing down to Joseph.
    Need anything more be said?
     
    #60 OldRegular, Sep 22, 2005
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 3 of 6
Loading...