God's purpose in allowing Christian's to sin on earth

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by CF1, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. CF1

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    What might be God's sovereign purpose in allowing regenerated (born again) Christian's to sin?

    I have been humbled many times for sinning with pride. I wonder why.

    My thoughts are:
    To show God's Glory in giving us daily Grace that we need when he sovereignly chooses to give His Grace, not when we choose to do good from our own works, which makes us proud.
    To teach us to pray for daily grace for daily sanctification
    To keep us dependent on Him.
    To keep us from following Satan in prideful, man/self centered lives
    To keep us humbled in needing His daily renewing Grace
    All of this seems to give Glory to God rather than to man, including Christian mankind.

    What are other thoughts?
     
  2. Iconoclast

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    This is a good list.....
    God has given us His word as a protection and means of sanctification.Jn17:17
    In the word we are commanded to "keep thy heart with all diligence"
    You have correctly identified where keeping the heart leads us...
    prayer,and service,worship....keeping the heart is central to all of it.
    Certainly mortification is a central part of every christians keeping of the heart. Romans 8 and colossians 3....eph 4-5 should be worn out in our bibles as we can be kept mindful of putting off the works of the flesh,and seeking to be spiritually minded.
    Gina had started a thread on this last month , but not so many interacted with it.

     
    #2 Iconoclast, Nov 5, 2011
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  3. freeatlast

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    I am not sure what you mean by allowing Christians to sin? Are you saying in contrast to killing us for our first sin after salvation? If you mean He does it to get glory I would say absolutely not.
    I assume that He does not kill us when we sin so that He has a remnant here to spread the gospel so others can become saved. While I agree that the grace that He extends to us even after we are saved does bring Him glory, I don’t agree that such is the purpose.
     
  4. CF1

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    Actually I was not thinking about God killing us. That thought didn't cross my mind.

    I'm wondering what is God's sovereign purpose in letting us alone to ourselves where we sin, as Christians. What might God be thinking when He lets this happen. How does letting us sin fit into his plan?
     
  5. CF1

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    Good thoughts to meditate on. Give me some time to think on these thoughts.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    Alright. Then using that understanding I would say to keep in mind He has given us deeds to do as well as telling us how to live, not to sin. All sin is a choice so Perhaps He is allowing us to decide how many rewards we will receive by how we obey when we go to be with Him. The closer our walk the more rewards the more rewards the more glory we shed on Him
     
    #6 freeatlast, Nov 5, 2011
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  7. convicted1

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    Another thing to add to this good thread. When we were saved, our soul was resurrected from a dead state of sin, into a lively hope in Christ. The "stains" of sin were washed away via the blood of the Lamb. Our natural body still hasn't been delivered from the bondage of sin, and is still in its corrupted state. We battle the sin in the flesh daily, but our soul does not struggle with sin, because the Spirit has came in and taken up His abode. We are dead, and our life is hid with Christ in God. That is why we have the warfare that Apostle Paul speaks about. Our renewed soul battles the flesh daily, bringing it into subjection by the working of the Spirit.


    This is why we struggle with the sin in the flesh.......not yet delivered out of the corrupted body into an uncorrupted spiritual body when Christ gathers His children from all over this world.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    OK but how does that answer the OP question? "God's purpose in allowing Christian's to sin on earth" "What might be God's sovereign purpose in allowing regenerated (born again) Christian's to sin?"
     
  9. convicted1

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    To show us that we are not self-sufficient, but rather, self-defficient(sp?).
     
    #9 convicted1, Nov 6, 2011
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  10. freeatlast

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    So are you saying that God allows us to sin after salvation to show us we need Him? I thought that was why we came to Him in the first place.
     
    #10 freeatlast, Nov 6, 2011
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  11. Tom Butler

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    Regarding the OP:

    This scene is running through my mind. I'm standing before God, who's sitting on his throne.

    "Lord, a bunch of us were discussing on the Baptist Board......"

    I have quite a few questions for the Lord. That's one of them.
     
  12. freeatlast

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    Get in line as I have a bucket full of questions. :laugh: Perhaps we will experience instant revelation. Now that would save a lot of time.
     
  13. Tom Butler

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    Since I am likely much older than you are, you must defer to my advanced age and let me go first. I think I can get all my questions answered in about 500 years.

    Careful. I though I heard you thinking "okay, age before beauty."

    Wait. Naw, guess not.
     
  14. kyredneck

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    :thumbs:



    1 A Psalm of Asaph. Surely God is good to Israel, Even to such as are pure in heart.
    2 But as for me, my feet were almost gone; My steps had well nigh slipped.
    3 For I was envious at the arrogant, When I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
    22 So brutish was I, and ignorant; I was as a beast before thee.
    23 Nevertheless I am continually with thee: Thou hast holden my right hand.
    24 Thou wilt guide me with thy counsel, And afterward receive me to glory.
    25 Whom have I in heaven but thee? And there is none upon earth that I desire besides thee. Ps 73
     
    #14 kyredneck, Nov 6, 2011
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  15. 12strings

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    I thought the OP was asking, "why doesn't God immediatly put in the glorified sinless state when we become a Christian?"

    If so, the answer "to keep us humble" does not hold water. When we are in heaven for eternity, we will not be a bunch of pride-filled people, because that would also be a sin.

    God could make us perfectly humble sinless people right when we are saved, but does not.

    So I think the answer has to lie elsewhere...
     
  16. CF1

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    That's right, I'm not asking why didn't God do it different and make us perfect. I'm not complaining about how God set it up. His ways are sovereign and right. He has a purpose to what He does. If I can understand that purpose, I might be able to see more of the great Glory of the Lord.
     
  17. convicted1

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    Even after salvation, we still need Him. We can not stand against the wiles of the devil without the Lord. We come to the Lord because we need Him to be saved, we go to Him in prayer because we STILL need Him. Look, at salvation, we don't just toss Him into the corner, and tell Him we can do this now. Why the command to repent after being saved? Why the command to confess our sins after being saved? Eventhough we have been born again/born from above, we still need His guidance. We don't sweep Him under the rug after He saves us, and do this on our own.
     
  18. convicted1

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    Brother Tom, with all due respect, I do not have one question to ask Him. He answered everything I needed answered when He saved my dead soul. When I see Him as He is, I want to kneel at His feet, and thank Him for what He did for one poor sinner.
     
  19. convicted1

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    Well Brother, God has cleansed our souls, but not our flesh. The soul has been delivered from the "pains" of sin, but not the flesh. This verse came to mind:

    1 Cor. 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


    Here is where it talks about us a CHRISTians having been made perfect in our soul:

    1 John 3
    1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

    Now, what abides in Christ? Why, its our soul. Our soul has been made spotless by His shed blood, and has been made perfect. Our flesh, in the physical condition it is in right now(natural fleshly man), has not been changed into a perfect state yet.

    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


    What has been born of God? Again, our soul has been born again/born from above, and is in a perfect state. What is the seed? Why, thats the Word, God manifested in the flesh, Jesus Christ Himself. Jesus and the Father will take up Their abode in us.

    John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

    25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


    When we are saved, we get the "Package deal", the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Now, here is where we get the perfect outward body:

    1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.



    While we are here in our fleshly bodies, our flesh will struggle with sin. But our soul that has been made perfect, alive IN CHRIST, will bring our flesh under subjection through the working of the Holy Ghost. I hope I have explained my position well enough for you to understand what I meant. If you are unclear on any thing, please ask me, and I will try my best to be clearer.
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    I understand your point. And you are right, that the first thing we'll do is to fall on our faces before him.

    That said, thanks for giving up your spot in line. Gives the rest of us more time for questions.
     

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