Going from one to two services

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Mar 5, 2006.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Before I put forth my beef with this, let me first state that there has been at least one really good outcome of the new schedule for Church:

    Since we go to early service, we can get home at a time that is good for our 2 year old son to eat and get to bed for his afternoon nap on time.

    That being said, I have also noticed some other trends that are disturbing to me.

    1. It has had the effect of dividing my family on Sunday. How? I sing in the choir. The Music Minister really wants everyone there for both services to at least sing for the specials, etc... Before the new service, my family and I would drive to Church together and leave together. We now take seperate cars because I stay to sing for the second service and leave after the special. My wife and son go home in a seperate car.

    2. It has also had the effect of dividing the Church by generations. Going to both services, I have noticed the trend that most of the older generation go to the early service, while most of the younger generation go to the second service.

    3. I have also noticed that I don't seem to know the folks in the second service very well, especially if they are new, and vice versa.

    I don't think dividing the Church like this is a good thing. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    You are right on all counts, but you will get used to it.

    Our church has five services. 8:30; 2 @ 9:45; & 2 @ 11:00. We have Bible Fellowship going on at the same time. There are active people at church that I haven't seen in years.

    We go to 8:30 service and then Bible Fellowship. I have to be there really early for the media center. We used to take multiple cars, but since my mom moved here, Ron drops me off and then goes to pick her up.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Bitsey,

    I am not sure I want to get used to being divided from my family and the rest of the Church on Sunday. Why would we want to get used to that? It doesn't seem like a very positive thing to me.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. rbell

    rbell
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    What are your alternatives? Our church--we either had to "divide," or face the fact that we couldn't reach any more people. Yes, multiple services do "divide." But, if your church is going to this service because it's full, there's probably no other alternative, except to post folks at the door and say, "Sorry, we're full. Sign this waiting list and we'll call you..."

    I view the sacrifices I and my family make in accomodating multiple services and Sunday Schools well worth it--it enables us to reach hundreds more people every week than we could otherwise reach.

    A common argument against multiple services is, "We'll end up with two churches." So what? Another on-fire church in the area is a good thing, in my opinion.
     
  5. Martin

    Martin
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    I think you make alot of good points. However since my church only has one morning service and one evening service (and those are not even full) I don't face those problems. It also helps that I am not married (no I don't view being single as bad... [​IMG] ). However I do believe you raise alot of questions that the modern church would do go to ask and answer. That is mainly true with the popular mega-church movement. Church becomes a huge rally and not a personal group of believers coming together to worship the Lord and learn His Word. While I have nothing against very large churches I have to wonder if it is really a good idea. Maybe we can view it as a necessary down side to alot of growth? However I am sure there are some positives to the growth (as one responder has already pointed out).

    Martin.
     
  6. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    I like what a large church offers. My kids had so many opportunities to do so many mission things. I've had opportunities to serve and programs with which to work. But I've always been in large churches. I don't know any different. I've never known everyone I went to church with because of it. You develop smaller communities within the larger one and they become your church home so-to-speak.

    The five services was a bit taxing on me at first -- lots of media center issues. But we worked those out. We jumped from 40 to 60 volunteers to keep it open. There are lots of other issues, I'm sure, with multiple services that I don't have any clue about.

    I mentioned you'll get used to it because this is what happens when a church grows. If a church isn't willing to do things like go to additional services, plant new churches, or think outside the box in other ways it's my experience that growth eventually tapers off. Now I'm making the assumption that you went to two services for this reason.

    I think God will give you peace about this.
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    1. Our Church was not full. We were about 75% capacity, and this was after several pews were taken out of the sanctuary one Easter to accomodate the stage for the pageant and never put back in afterwards. It was right about then that the idea that we were running out of room came about. We were told that once our church is 75% full that if we don't do this, we wouldn't continue to grow. I don't buy that.

    2. The obvious alternative is to do a building program to make more room. One does not have to divide the Church and individual families to make more room.

    3. Along the same lines of building new Churches, perhaps it would be better to send out missionaries to plant more Churches. But you should not divide your own Church into two Churches. There should be unity within the fellowship, and within the families individually as well.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    When a Church becomes large enough that two services are required they need to split the comgregation and form a second Church. That is what you have anyway as you point out.
     
  9. gb93433

    gb93433
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    The larger the church gets the more unselfish the people must be.

    Nobody has a problem with not knowing everyone in college or in their city so why have a problem with knowing everyone in the church?

    The ministry of the church is not about me but about Christ.
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Church is not a college or a city. It is a fellowship of believers. Somehow, the word fellowship doesn't seem to mean much anymore. Wonder why?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. rbell

    rbell
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    Joseph,

    Your mind is made up already. You probably should look for another church. Hope everything works out.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I don't think so. I think I will try and see about changing things.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
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    Seems like a great opportunity to meet and get to know some new folks. What is bad about that?

    Maybe the Lord is taking you out of your comfort zone to grow and challenge you a bit?
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Actually not. Mostly old timers come to the first service and newcomers come to the second service. It is not about comfort zones...it is about dividing the Church. I think that is wrong.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW
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    Well Joseph maybe you should go to the late service and really get to know some of these newcomers. Maybe just maybe you could reach out to some new people groups and do some good for Christ's kingdom. [​IMG]
     
  16. Deacon

    Deacon
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    Joe, a 100% full service will never happen; once a service hits a certain percentage (70-80%, I’ve heard) they tend to plateau.
    Adding two services will encourage growth.

    Of course the other side of the issue is you need a minimum number of people in a congregational meeting room to sustain a service too
    (been there, done that with a third service :( )

    Sure it will mean a change in how things have been done. It will require some stretching.
    Express your opinions with grace and be sure you are not a stumbling block to others.

    Old Regular posted:
    “When a Church becomes large enough that two services are required they need to split the congregation and form a second Church. That is what you have anyway as you point out.

    One of the great thing about bigger congregations is their ability manage costs.
    Splitting into two separate congregations means paying two sets of staff, paying for two buildings, covering two heating bills etc…

    Rob
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433
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    If one understands scripture and the early church they will also understand that they had room for more to add to their fellowship. Seems like 3000 in one day on one occasion.

    Compare Acts 2:41 and Acts 2:42


    Acts 2:41, 42, "41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. 42They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
     
  18. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
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    Joseph, have you talked to the pastor about your feelings?
     
  19. rbell

    rbell
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    If one understands scripture and the early church they will also understand that they had room for more to add to their fellowship. Seems like 3000 in one day on one occasion.

    Compare Acts 2:41 and Acts 2:42


    Acts 2:41, 42, "41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. 42They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
    </font>[/QUOTE]Nowhere does it say that everybody met at the same time, in one physical location.
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    You're right. I should do that. I apologize for starting this thread without doing so. I am going to pray about this and possibly discuss this with him.

    Joseph Botwinick
     

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