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Gold dust and oily hands...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Nov 2, 2006.

  1. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    Some things are meant to be mystery.

    Look, if someone needs parlor tricks to convince them that God is alive and at work in this world, then that's their problem. They'll end up eternally running for the next thrill, the next "miracle," the next blessing while all around gthem people are dying from neglect.

    In my view (and I spent a decade within the Pentecostal movement, and bear it no ill will), these kinds of things serve no real purpose, thus I can't personally fathom them being from God.

    I understand the confusion. I share, in great measure, that confusion.

    But look: Healings serve a purpose. Even tongues serve a purpose. Oily hands and gold dust? To what end? That the oily-handed one seems particularly holy? That the dusty one seems more "in-tune" to the moving of the Spriit than his or her fellow worshipers?

    You shall know them by their fruits, and I don't think being holier-than-thou is a spiritual gift.
     
  2. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    Physician heal thyself...

    If you think he needs discipling, then disciple rather than criticize.
     
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Oh please. The bible also doesn't mention cellphones and computers. Besides this John says that Jesus did many more things which are not mentioned. Are you saying that if something is not explicitely in the bible it cannot be from God? This is a bit too easy.
     
  4. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    It's not so much about these things. I'm not keen on gold dust and oily hands.
    The real problem is that I don't know what to think about these things. On the one hand it cannot be that God is not moving among charismatics at all. I think that they are also christians. They also believe in God. You cannot simply say they are all misled phonies. This is ridiculous. But if they are also christians then why would God allow such things to happen to them if they are not from him? This simply makes no sense to me, it's totally confusing.
    It's so strange. On the one hand I think that those charismatics which I know also know something about God and have some wisdom but at the same time they also have a lot of strange stuff which seems really weird to me and the problem is getting these 2 things in line. My impression is that some conservative christians are making this way too easy by simply judging those charismatics are deceived or whatever. I don't think this is helpful. I think they simply do this in order to separate themselves from them, maybe also because they don't have such experiences. Maybe some of them are even jealous of experiences, I don't know.
    I want to experience God but at the same time I don't want this strange stuff which goes on at some churches. But today it's like you have the choice between a conservative church where nothing is going on at all or you can go to a charismatic church where a lot of stuff is going on but also weird stuff. Where are the churches where God is really doing something but which at the same time don't have weird stuff? Does such a church even exist? I'm not sure. :(
     
    #24 xdisciplex, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    God is the Physician . . . and if this sick child does not want, desire, or in the end deserve discipleship, he will not find it.
     
    #25 El_Guero, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    XX

    You need to find a ministry that will disciple you. Navigators, Campus Crusade, and several others have ministers world wide.

    Else, you need to move on in your 'spritual' quest for the demons that you pursue. Just realize, that soon, God will deliver you over to them. And that will not be 'pretty'.


     
  7. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    you crack me up :rolleyes:

    do you think threatening me helps me? and who are you that you think you know what God is about to do? :BangHead:
    i rather have the impression that you're angry because I ignore your standard replies about me needing discipleship. :sleep:
     
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    X, If you really desire to know the truth, cut yourself off from all tv preachers, all internet websites about these people and all books about religion and pray for God to reveal the truth to you through His word. This is the only way for you to know what the truth is. When I was a new Christian, I went through the same confusion and when I decided to trust God only, He showed me the way. Now I have peace. God will show you the truth if you truly desire it in your heart.
     
  9. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member
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    XDX,

    I've been reading this thread. There has been some good advice here.

    I believe that the answers that you're looking for are in God's Word, not the experiences of men. If you will look at these "testimonies" of chairsmatics (and even fundamentals) throught the filter of God's Word, you will find the truth. It will take time - much time. It will take serious study. There is no easy way. But the answers you search for are there.

    The encouragement for you to be discipled are not meant to insult you or your intelligence. They are intended to help you. If there is no one there who can disciple you, then let God's Holy Spirit disciple you as your study His Word.

    Don't look for your answers in the experiences of man, especially those you know are not following the teaching of Scripture. Look for answers from God Himself, as revealed to us in His Word.

    May God reveal to you His Word. May God bring peace to your confusion and fears. May you find all you need in God and His Word.
     
    #29 SBCPreacher, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  10. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    Well, I've been to the "exciting" churches and, from what I have seen, it's a lot of flash-bang and very little productive activity. Lots of emphasis on what God can do for "me," not much about service to God through service to others.

    That isn't particularly healthy.

    God is doing things in a wide variety of churches, and very little of what God does is flash-bang stuff. I tend to favor mainline churches, of course, but I can tell you that experiencing God happens in the context of (a) a faith community, and (b) a willing heart.

    Looking for "the next big thrill" makes worship all about you, not about God. You want to be excited, you want to "see God move," you want to be entertained.

    Worship isn't about you, my friend. Worship is toward, about, and to be focused intently upon, God. That means maybe you don't get entertained. Tough. Maybe you don't "see God moving." Tough.

    Because worship is focused on God, and not on what God can do for me, I can learn how God moves - comparatively quiety, and far more profoundly - in the lives of those around me, and in the lives of people I do not know; healing, protecting, restoring, and loving.

    Life is much more fulfilling in service rather than in being served.
     
  11. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Hi Amy,
    but the problem is that every christian relies on God to show him the truth, right?
    This means no matter which christian you ask they will all think that they are right but they cannot all be right. There is only 1 truth and most christians don't agree with each other. Does this simply mean that all the charismatics are not truth-loving enough and they want to be deceived? I don't think so. This would not be fair towards these people. Of course I want the truth but only because I want the truth also doesn't mean that I understand everything correctly and everybody who doesn't agree with me is automatically wrong. This great diversity of opinions simply sucks. One pastor says this the other pastor says something different. The difference between having only 1 source (1 pastor) and having more sources is simply that those which only listen to 1 source simply adapt to the opinion of their pastor and then they have their theology which will most likely be waterproof and give them all answers simply because it comes from the same source. The people simply take over the opinion of their pastor and since it's always the same pastor they also will never hear anything which doesn't fit together. This makes life a lot easier. I could also only listen to 1 pastor and then simply assume that he's always right but most likely he is not always right. This is also why having only 1 source (pastor, discipler or whatever) can also be very dangerous because if this person doesn't have it all right then you will be fed all these wrong things but not even notice it. You will get a totally messed up theology and not even notice it. This is like being alone in class. This way you never know if you are good or bad compared to others. Having 1 teacher who teaches you everything and who provides your whole theology is dangerous, it will basically make you become a clone of this teacher. You will have exactly the same opinions as this teacher. But if this teacher is wrong then you are also wrong. This is why El's great advice also sucks. Having a mentor doesn't mean that everything is fine. If you have the wrong mentor your problems are just starting....
     
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    X, I agree with you that there are a multitude of opinions out there. That is what caused my confusion as a new Christian. It can be maddening! But, realize that this is a tactic of the devil. To create confusion and division and separation from God. When the day comes that I stand before the Lord Himself, I will not be able to say "I was just so confused I didn't know who to believe." God has given us His word. Use it. Let it be between you and God and leave all the other opinions out of it. I don't know why there are so many opinions on the same thing and in the end it doesn't really matter. What matters is your walk with the Lord because you are not accountable for the thoughts and deeds of others. Keep your eyes on Jesus. When you feel confused about all the other stuff...let it go. God will take care of all the false stuff. You have to reach a point in your life to either believe God or not. God's word is true and He will give you wisdom...James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. Now, ask yourself, do I believe God or not? Will God really give me wisdom? If we say no, we're calling God a liar. I'm not willing to do that, so that leaves yes as the answer. God will NEVER deceive you! Get alone in a quiet place everyday and just read your Bible. Pray for God's guidance and stay away from the tv preachers. Let God teach you.
    Whenever you feel confused just ask yourself, "what does the Bible say". And remember, we will be learning for a lifetime. We're not going to know all the answers rightaway. Be patient and trust God.
     
  13. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    XX

    You really do not get it. I cannot harm you. And if I could, I probably would not.

    Prov 13:13
    But, there is one Who can and will destroy.

    Matt 10:27
    27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    It is God that you need to fear.

    Maybe instead of playing at xdiscipleshipx, you could become a disciple.

    God's wrath is coming.

    And you have said repeatedly that you are not ready.

    Yet, you live in fear of showmanship of a few miracle workers. They cannot breath unless God allows it.

    Neither can I . . . Neither can you.

    You need discipleship. Before it is too late, find discipleship.

    Whatever it costs a man on this earth, so long as He saves your soul.

    Matt 16




    If you do not know what He is about to do . . . can He call you one of His . . . when He has clearly revealed in His Word to you what He is about to do.

    You need discipleship while it is still called light . . .
     
  14. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    You really do need to be in a church, x, instead of being blown about by every wind of doctrine.
     
  15. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    AMEN!!!

    The big bad wolf could blow him over . . .

    ;) - pray for me brother - I got offered a job back in IT . . . I could use the insurance . . . and of course the money would be nice.

    God bless you!
     
  16. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Oh boy, I think you confuse a few things. You make it look like it's not Jesus who saves but it's a mentor who saves. You make it look like if I don't find a mentor I won't get saved, how silly is this? Sure, having a mentor would be nice but I don't know where you live. Maybe where you live there are christians on every corner which have nothing to do and which are waiting for people who they can "disciple". But here on earth, where I live it's a bit different, you know? First of all there are not many wise christians and those wise christians which know a lot either have a job or they have a ministry and this means they have no time to fool around with somebody like me. Okay?
    I hope that I was able to make it clear to you now that your ideas are absolutely unrealistic. You could as well tell me to start my own church, it wouldn't be much more unrealistic than finding a mentor who has time to read the bible with me and to answer all my questions. :rolleyes:
    And I also don't have anything to do, I can go to him every morning at 8 AM and then we study until midnight. This is gonna be fun. :thumbsup:

    But of course it has to be a baptist mentor because only the baptists have the right theology. If it was a charismatic mentor you would most likely freak out and tell me to find a real mentor because the only real mentor is somebody who teaches exactly the same stuff which you think is correct. :laugh:
     
  17. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    This makes it look like charismatics don't read the bible. I don't think that this is true. They also read the bible and study it. If this stuff isn't from God and they are all deceived then I want to know why. Are they all willingly deceived or what? I cannot imagine this. Then what is it? Nobody is able to provide real helpful answers and explanations. Somehow nothing fits together. How is a normal person supposed to understand all these things anymore? This really turns me off. Every denomination thinks she's right while the others are all wrong.
     
  18. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    xx

    It is not I friend that comes to the board with a new theology daily . . . God is the same today and tomorrow that He was a billion years ago (But, only if time was created then).

    You need Him. And the way to get closer to Him is discipleship . . . "just a closer walk with Thee Lord, grant it this my plea".

    You have asked at least 100 questions that could (should) have been answered by a mentor.

    What scares you about sitting underneath the leadership of a godly man?

    I have a couple of accountability partners that are younger than I am . . . That is correct - I do practice what I preach.

    Get right with God and find a discipler. No more excuses - serve God or regret it.
     
  19. Not_hard_to_find

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    If only...
     
  20. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member
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    XDX,
    It doesn't matter what the charismatics believe or teach. It doesn't matter what any man believes or teaches. All that matters is what does the Bible say. If listening to all those voices or demonations confuses you, then don't listen to them. Just read the Bible for yourself and ask God to reveal to you His truth.

    You ask, "How is a normal person supposed to understand all these things anymore?" Listen, don't rely on ANYBODY to give you answers. Get your answers from God's Word. Read it for yourself. Study it for yourself. I promise you, it fits together. Until you sit down with your Bible and study for yourself, asking God to reveal His truth to you; until you turn off all the other influences that confuse you; until you get alone with God, you will not understand His Word. The truth is not in any man's opinion or actions - the truth is in God's Word. Get in there and find it!
     
    #40 SBCPreacher, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
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