Gonna Upset The Apple Cart

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    Who was it what invented the Walk The Isle trick, say a little prayer, get baptized, join the church and whammo, then told of their guarantee of being Glory bound? Did those 5000 referenced in Acts 4:4 walk the isle and say a little prayer?

    How many have you led down the Roman Road who did everything you told them to do, had them recite the little prayer and afterwards, there was no sign of any U-Turn in their lives?

    Doesn't the Lord save those utilizing only His Word while relying upon nothing man-made?

    Source: (Acts 4:4 - The Bible)
     
  2. preacher4truth

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    For the most part I believe people get over-zealous and do this, but the results are devastating in that they assure a person heaven based upon their method of 'soul-winning'. I don't believe all who do this in an over-zealous misinformed way understand that they are doing harm, I believe they are sincere, yet they wonder what happened to the person and why they see no fruit, evidence or desire for God from their 'converts'.

    Then there are some who do so with full and willful intent, and state that all they (the proselyte) have to do is say the prayer, and they are going to heaven no matter the evidence, practice, or the walk of the one who said the prayer.

    We are of the persuasion that we need to reach these 'converts' as well as others, as there are multitudes of persons that have said the prayer and show no evidence, don't attend church &c. The bottom line in all of this is that even among these who are not genuinely converted there are some who are in fact elect and they will be converted, so we are looking for lost sheep among the flocks.
     
  3. prophet

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    When His voice is presented, His sheep hear Him. They ask, "what must I do?".
    Marketing techniques teach us to:"always be closing the sale", and "the invitation begins in the parking lot". These techniques were born in sorcery. They use guile.
    Open, plain, honest presentation of Truth is the refreshing antidote that cures the resistance to salesmanship built up since the advent of electronic communication.
     
  4. Thousand Hills

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    Yes, and I get cracked up everytime I see you do that.
     
  5. Thousand Hills

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    Washer says that the church in America is the greatest mission field today, tend to agree with him. Also says that as infant baptism was the golden child of the reformation, so is the sinner's prayer of our day and time. Praise God that despite all the nonsense his sheep will still hear his voice, but we still have the responsibility to do our part to proclaim these truths.
     
  6. Thousand Hills

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  7. salzer mtn

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    Charles Finney made it popular. I personally have never led anyone down the Romans road but I once attended for a short time a church that practiced the Roman road salvation.
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    The "Romans Road" is utilizing His Word.
     
  9. InTheLight

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  10. go2church

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    How do you give people a chance to respond to the "drawing" of The Lord?
     
  11. preacher4truth

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    Absolutely agree!
     
  12. agedman

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    Frankly, I don't have a problem using the "Roman's Road."

    I DO most definitely have a problem with "pray this prayer after me" salvation!

    My son was sharing with me how he led a young lady to the Lord, and she asked for guidance in her prayer. He didn't put words in her mouth, but helped her in her innocent tender belief.

    It has been so unfortunate that the Baptist use of the altar call and "soul winning," that was born out of trying to meet the demand for attention by so many, has been so very misused. It would have been far better to have looked into Acts to see how the first church handled the problem of 5000 responding.

    The Scriptures are the Scriptures. Even coming from a heathen ungodly mouth, they are powerful for they are the Word. Do not despise the "Roman's Road."

    DO be sure that the road is pointed out clearly, though!

    Too many folks take "confess" as DOING to acquire something, rather than testifying as what has already been done.

    How can one confess what has not been done or taken place in their own heart?

    Here is a better rendering of Romans 10:9 in my opinion:
    BECAUSE you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
    The "if" is too often taken by many as something to be done when the verse is actually a statement of promise and hope.
     
  13. sag38

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    Who was it what invented the Walk The Isle trick, say a little prayer, get baptized, join the church and whammo, then told of their guarantee of being Glory bound? Did those 5000 referenced in Acts 4:4 walk the isle and say a little prayer?

    How many have you led down the Roman Road who did everything you told them to do, had them recite the little prayer and afterwards, there was no sign of any U-Turn in their lives?

    Doesn't the Lord save those utilizing only His Word while relying upon nothing man-made?

    Source: (Acts 4:4 - The Bible)

    What exactly do you do? Do you just preach the gospel and sit by and wait for them to come to you and say, "I am a Christian."? How do you witness to people and help them understand how they can become a Christian? I hear all these supposed complaints and rants but never a "this is how it should be done." If you are just coming here to rant then your rant is heard and you are just another angry person venting. How about some constructive instruction on your part?

    __________________
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    There's nothing wrong with the Romans Road, as it is preaching the Gospel and the Word. Now if someone wants to beg for God's mercy on them a sinner and plead for salvation at that time, then God is doing His Work.

    If one doesn't believe in sharing Romans with them, what exactly from the Word does said person share?
     
  15. agedman

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    What did Christ share with Nicodemus?
     
  16. InTheLight

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    So you change the plain meaning of the scripture because 'you like it better'. Amazing.
     
  17. agedman

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    The problem many have in looking at the "if" is because the interpretation of the "English" "if" has more than one connotation. There is the verb form and the noun form.

    The Greek does not use the form in which the "if" is an introduction or as condition to (as an "if then" statement); it is using the "if" as the result of, or allowing (that), or on the assumption (that) - a statement that has an element of uncertainty.

    Therefore, the rendering I gave of "because" is accurate with the intention and in modern English a more precise use than the "that if."

    Paul is basically stating the truth "because whoever acknowledges" with the mouth and believes in the heart are saved.

    See the "because whoever acknowledges" is also a way to render Romans 10:9.

    The Greek "uncertainty" as related of "ean" rests in the fact that not everyone acknowledges, not everyone actually believes in the heart, and not everyone who says Lord is saved.

    I am not changing the Scripture because "I like it better."
     
  18. InTheLight

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    The KJV says:

    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    That certainly sounds like a conditional statement, in fact, sounds like a cascading conditional statement. IF you confess and IF you believe...then you will be saved.
     
  19. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Irrelevant. We aren't talking about the English "if," we're talking about the Greek ean, which has only one meaning: "in the case of." In other words, "In the case that you confess ... and believe ... you will be saved." Period. There is no equivocation, and there is no wiggle room. If such is not the case, you will not be saved. End of story.
     
  20. salzer mtn

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    Romans Road: Christ died for the whole word, so that includes you. Quote John 3:16. God loves you and don't want you to go to hell. Christ died for the sin's of the world, are you a sinner ? Do you believe there is a God ? quote scripture. Do you believe there is a hell ? quote scripture. Now that you have answered yes to all the above pray now and receive Jesus into your heart. Nothing is ever said about a broken and a contrite spirit. Nothing is ever said about the drawing of the Holy Spirit why, because Roman Roaders believe everyone is under conviction all the time or don't believe in it at all.
     

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