Government Only Entity Left

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dragoon68, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obama says: "It is absolutely true that we can't depend on government alone to create jobs or economic growth. But at this particular moment, with the private sector so weakened by this recession, the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back into life. It is only government that can break the vicious cycle where lost jobs lead to people spending less money which leads to even more layoffs."

    I say hogwash! We can only depend on government to confiscate and squander our hard earned wealth just as they've consistently done with every such grandiose plan to "help" Americans previously implemented. All these grand ideas never solve anything - they just become justification for doing more to fix what's wrong with the previous effort. The approximate 30% decrease value of our savings is the direct result of government's silly policies and practices that finally caught up with everyone. Yet some want to go back to the same fools for answers! That's dumb! The private sector can do just fine - including eventual recovery from the government's instigated mess - if the government will let us all keep more of what we earn and use it as we know best. All the wealth, all the jobs, all the improvements, etc. - all come from the investments and labors of the private sector. The government is merely a leach - necessary only in some few areas - that skims from the productivity of American's workers. The President can help by stopping his spread of panic among Americans and promises of salvation from the problems that will not be forthcoming for his plans. His logic is completely flawed because, in fact, the resources he seeks will come from the private sector in the form of taxes. If we don't have these resources then we must be making a huge loan - to be paid back with interest to someone by none other than US taxpayers - or the US Mint is about to print a bunch of funny money - to be paid for by all Americans through serious inflation. Want he's latched on to is a dream to implement all his liberal ideas in the name of saving the economy. This man isn't a leader - he's a smooth con artist.
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is true. The Federal Reserve can't cut interest rates lower than what they already are - 0%.
     
  3. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Keynesians do not understand that wealth only comes from the "private sector." Wealth only exists by virtue of how individual human action prescribes marginal utility, and how this projects to the macro scheme. All that a government can do is dilute, debase, and/or redistribute wealth. The government is not a source of wealth; it is (supposed to be) a limited burden on society to maintain order. The government is a (limited but necessary) liability; not an asset.

    You cannot create wealth through taxation.
    You cannot create wealth through deficit borrowing and spending.
    You cannot create wealth by printing paper certificates (apparently wealth does grow on trees).

    The economic problem is a result of government "stimulus." The low interest rate policy caused people to spend money that they didn't have to create asset bubbles that were not prudent. Resources are now improperly balanced and the government must retract its poor monetary policies to allow the economy to reliquefy by selling bubble assets and reduce excess inventory. More bubble policy will result in more of the same problem; it will not cure it.

    What is it about about basic economics that policy wonks and their supporters do not understand?
     
  4. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am rather sick of elitist career politicians invoking bad government policies that cause unnatural market reactions and malinvestments, blaming the results on the "free market", and proposing yet more bad government policies as the solution. When are people going to wake up?
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    They want to take by force taxes for the private sector but out of the other side of their mouth claim that the private sector cannot "jolt" itself. If it cannot jolt itself it cannot provide taxes. Their logic fails all reason.
     
  6. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    The jobs bill has tax cuts, not tax increases, Pastor Mitchell.
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    They did and kicked the conservatives and their failed policies out of office.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    They do and so do the American people. That's why the conservatives and their failed policies were kicked out of office.
     
  9. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    There were no conservatives in office.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you are saying that all of those years that the GOP controlled the Congress and all of those years that the GOP controlled the White House that there were no conservatives - what about Gingrich, Paul, Armey, et al?
     
  11. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deficit pork-barrel spending is a tax. The Republicans foolishly support tax cuts without spending cuts. Tax cuts are virtually worthless, and can be a negative, in the face of spending increases. I know that we both agree on that. The difference is the following:

    I believe that the problems were caused mostly by bad government policies causing market distortions through artificially low interest rates and lax lending standards stemming from the central banks down through the market. Therefore, the solution is to allow the market to correct itself and reduce the burden of government by cutting taxes AND cutting spending.

    You believe that the problems were caused mostly by corporate greed at the root causing consumers to overspend on overvalued assets; and that this malinvestment was a result of not enough regulation in the free market. Therefore, the solution is to allow the government more oversight to regulate corporate executives so that they cannot cause market speculation and inflate stocks and asset valuations by increasing spending, redistributing wealth, and increasing taxes if necessary to aid the other two.

    Please let me know if I have you wrong.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't blame consumers. I blame the laissez-faire policies of the Bush administration.
     
  13. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gingrich used to be more conservative during the "Contract with America" years, but allowed himself to compromise to supposedly keep Republicans in power.

    Paul is a true economic conservative in my view. Simply one of the best I have ever observed.

    To call the GOP as a whole "conservative" during the last administration is laughable, unless the meaning of conservative has indeed changed. The last administration's spending policy could only be compared to Johnson's. His policies were like Hoover's, leading up to Obama's which will surely resemble Roosevelt's.

    History has a way of repeating itself, and those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
     
  14. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, and hopefully the American people have learned to never trust conservatives with power again.
     
  15. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't blame consumers either. I blame the Keynesian policies of the Bush administration, Alan Greenspan, and Ben Bernanke. Obama's economic policies will only be even more Keynesian and more destructive.
     
  16. AresMan

    AresMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do believe in the balance of power. It seems that whenever either of the two parties gains control of both the executive and legislative branches, the rule of the day becomes spending, spending, and more spending. I could care less about either party anymore.

    My dream is that government will be eternally and equally divided between the two parties so that they clash in a never ending gridlock and get absolutely NOTHING done. That can only be good for our economy and civil liberties.
     
    #16 AresMan, Feb 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2009
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783

    It has very little to do with jobs and how do you think this will all get paid for? Obama campaigned on raising taxes on the upper middle class to the rich.
     

Share This Page

Loading...