Grad Program Info Needed?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Hey gang:

    I hope all is well!!!

    I have always wanted, to do (be) an ethicist in the technical sense of the term.

    Having said that: I was wondering if any of you know, or could help me find, a graduate certificate program(s) in "ethics" proper. I DO NOT WANT one in bio-medical ethics!!!:thumbs: I am in a medical facility hospital college and that does not "turn my crank" if you will.

    I want a program from 12-18 grad hrs. from an RA university, preferably one that can be done online or modularly in residence.

    Let me hear from you ASAP!

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #1 Rhetorician, Mar 30, 2007
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  2. Martin

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    I can't really help on this. The only program I know is at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. They offer a MA in ethics and a MDiv in ethics. However they do not offer programs online. Sorry.
     
  3. Brandon C. Jones

    Brandon C. Jones
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    Rhet-

    My searches only discovered the University of Central Florida's program, which most likely requires some residency, and Hartford Seminary, which may fit your needs. Hartford offers an online certificate program in "religious studies" that seems to be nearly wide open. The also offer a program in "theology and ethics," but it is not advertised as online.

    I don't know if that helps,
    BJ
     
  4. gb93433

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    My dissertation is on ethics in construction. I went to seminary and studied some on ethics and then studied some more at a university. The university gave me a much better education in that area. It allowed me to take a look at ethics in many fields and how codes of ethics are developed. It also gave me information I was never told about in seminary that is very valuable. Of course they do not use an approach from scripture but I do find it interesting that it lines up very much with what scripture teaches. Doing the research has given me many more tools than I ever had from seminary. After studying in that way I am able to find out what other professions expect.

    Ethics is being taught in many different areas and quite a number of accrediting agencies require it to be taught in majors other than just philosophy. In some cases it must be integrated into the curriculum and not just as one class only.

    What area of study are you intersted in?
     
  5. Rhetorician

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    gb Reply and Request to all??!!

    Hey Gang:

    Thanks for the "come backs" and good comments and insights.

    A local, big name in Christian circles, Christian university, has asked me to teach a course in Bio & Medical Ethics. I have taught for them before in Business Communications.

    The course is one in the Health-care Management bachelor's degree. It is a workshop format. We will meet five (5) times only for 4 hrs. each session weekly. I will admit that the delivery format is one that I had to do a great deal of adapting in order "to get up to speed!" I informed the program director that I did not have 18 grad hrs in Philosophy proper and that it might be a "hard sell" to the dean. Within nearly 24 hrs. (literally), she had gotten back to me and said that the dean had given the "OK" for me to teach it.

    I would have preferred to start with a general ethics intro or some such however. I am not wild about bioethics but am glad to have the chance to start there. Ethics has always been my first love and I originally wanted to do my doctorate in some aspect of the discipline. But I see this as maybe God opening the door for me into an area where I wanted to be--but maybe just a side door!:laugh:

    Most of you know me and have known me for quit some time. You know how I think, feel, and my ethos on some level. What I would like for you to do is to "think out loud" with me and for me to give me the pros & cons of this: Should I teach the course or not?

    One pro I see is this: I can teach the course and then decide whether or not I want to do one of these very expensive grad school certificate programs or not.

    So, "let me have it!" I am not saying it will help me make up or change my mind, but at least I can hear your thoughts.

    "Staying by the stuff" and waiting for your replies.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  6. paidagogos

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    Just do it!

    My take is to just do it and forget the certificate! You have the academic background and rigor to go it on your own. Once you have achieved a terminal degree in a related area, then you can broaden your expertise through your own study and learning. Many of the movers and shakers in a field have their degrees in another area. For example, Piaget (now deceased) whose cognitive development ideas dominated educational psychology during the 1980-90s took his degrees in zoology with a specialty in mollusks (malacology). Pretty far removed from educational psychology, huh?

    Once a person has acquired the study skills, research methodology, self-discipline, etc. of earning a terminal degree, he or she can rather quickly establish competency in another area. It would be a waste of your time to plod through course requirements for a certificate. I care about what you know and what you can do more than a piece of paper which may or may not have validity. In the vennacular, everyone who holds a sheepskin ain't necessarily competent.

    Rhet, go for it with vigor. You have the "stuff" to do but it will require a great deal of reading, thinking, organizing, perparation, etc. You could contact some well known authorities in the field for suggestions, especially in narrowing and focusing the scope of your reading. Go for it!
     
    #6 paidagogos, Apr 4, 2007
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  7. Martin

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    I am in full agreement with paidagogos. It can't hurt to teach the class and, like you said, it will give you a better idea if this is really an area you wish to do more study in.

    :thumbs:
     
  8. Paul33

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    Do it! Do it! Do it!
     
  9. Brandon C. Jones

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    If you go for it, you will certainly need to read up and get more acquainted, so here's some resources that could help you in bio-ethics:

    John Kilner over at CBHD (which is on the campus of TEDS) should be accessible for a quick query. Here's the CBHD homepage with plenty of resources from an evangelical perspective: http://www.cbhd.org/index.html

    Another great resource that is more broad is the hastings center here: http://www.thehastingscenter.org/default.asp

    One of their fellows teaches at Valpo and has written some great stuff from a Christian perspective, he is Gilbert Meilaender. Here's some more info. about him, perhaps he'd respond to an e-mail: http://www.valpo.edu/theology/meilaender.php

    I hope that helps,
    BJ
     
  10. Rhetorician

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    Decision

    Hey gang:

    I have looked and looked and the only program I can possibly see that interests me is the one at the Medical College of Wisconsin.

    After your opinions and some from life-long friends whom I have consulted I have decided to go ahead and teach the class. It seems to be "the most prudent thing to do at this juncture" as former President Bush would have said.

    This way I can teach it, see if I like it, and see if it is worth spending several thousand dollars more for a certificate that I may only use to teach one or two courses as I go along. Although, many ethicists whom I have known have "backed into the positions" rather than training for the position and then applying for it. Go figure! God must have a sense of humor on some level!

    Anyway, thanks for the input and let me have any follow-up comments if any come to mind.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #10 Rhetorician, Apr 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2007
  11. Broadus

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    FWIW, I have always learned more from having to prepare to teach and then articulate material than I ever began to learn as a student.

    Blessings in your endeavor, Rhet.

    Bill
     
  12. Plain Old Bill

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    Well said Broadus.
    Hey rhet teach the class.Here is where CES would be beautiful since they let you design some of your own fields of study. You could learn and create at the same time.I know they are not RA however they do have a fair reputation.:godisgood:
     
  13. gb93433

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    That is very true. However, we must learn before we can teach and we must learn enough to have the skills to begin teaching. Unfortunately there are too many who seem to think that they do not need to study and that if they just get out there then they wil learn. The problem is that so much ignorance is usually preached before much truth comes forth after all the Share Your Ignorance (SYI) experience. For those pastors who do study and follow a pastor who has preached such nonsense it is a nightmare.
     
  14. paidagogos

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    Independent or dependent learners?

    The question of continual learning is not to be debated. Any good teacher is continually learning. The different is how the learning takes place. Learning in the classroom is pretty much artificially contrived with real life experiences described or simulated. However, the teacher is motivated and further challenged by the experience of teaching. His or her students will quickly expose one who is unprepared or not ready for every conceivable situation. Whereas a student may slide by and wing it, the teacher is under constant demand and testing by his or her students.


    The competent teacher has achieved a level of competence and skill. Furthermore, he or she has arrived at a position of being an independent learner whereas students are to some degree still dependent learners. The goal of education is to produce independent learners who will continually learn without needing a teacher. The problem today is weaning off students into independent learning because teacher-guided dependent learning is their comfort zone. Teaching will force one into becoming an independent learner. BTW, life does not have an answer key, study guide, or answers in the back of the book. (Yeah, I know—someone is gonna say, “Yes, it does, the Bible.” Now, that’s not what I mean and anyone who thinks so has altogether missed my point.)
     
  15. Broadus

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    Well said, Paid. I couldn't agree more.

    The sad thing, as gb93433 indicated, is teaching without having studied. We've all had well-credentialed teachers who had quit studying or who were teaching in another field and had not prepared for their subject. I am confident, though, that our friend Rhet will rise to the occasion!

    Bill
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433
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    The problem is that there is not a person in this world who is ready for every conceivable situation. That is where humility comes in. That is teaching one of the greatest assets a person can have. With humility often comes a zeal for learning and that zeal to learn is contagious. What is hard is when a student comes to class and by the comments he makes you know that he is working for someone who does not know what they are doing. When you present the proper ways of doing things he immediately discredits you because that is not the way he is used to seeing it done. However, things change when they become juniors and seniors.

    The research has shown that those who are not able to move on have not learned the fundamentals very well. In a sense, none of us are independent learners. We are interdependent, because what we learn is dependent upon the work done before us and being done in the present. Independent learning is a thing of the past. It is an American philosophy Many businesses are learning that the best work is being done by a team of people working together. There are some software companies doing this and one could not get done in a lifetime what they are able to accomplish with a team of people who are experts in their field coming together to produce an incredible software package at a reasonable price for what it will do.

    It was Jefferson who brought the best and the brightest to this country so they could teach us and work with us to become the leading nation.

    America still leads the way in the number of patents each year (http://www.uspto.gov/go/taf/cst_utl.htm).
     
  17. gb93433

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    The reality is that there is much less money in education than there was 30 years ago. Some porofessors are having to teach in other areas of much less preparation. The fact is that the university I am at now has less money for labs in the program am in than I had when I taught high school in 1984. More and more is being paid to get a professor because industry is paying so much more and it is very competitive due to the lack of available professors. I only know of three doctoral programs in the same field I graduated with a B.A. in. Years ago many states had a doctoral program. The reality is that the number of students going to college is way down. One of the reasons is that the economics are good and people can get jobs. The other is that the birth rates were down a few years back.

    The percentage of taxes people pay for the same job is way down from where it was years ago. Plus the wages for a teacher is way down by comparison. Universities did experience people donating their tax refund checks. Instead people mostly spent it on new toys.

    Years ago my dad worked for the power company and was making the same as a starting teacher. Today that same job pays more than double what a starting teacher makes.

    In the field I am in almost 100% of the college students who train to be teachers leave teaching within three years.

    At the university level there were about 60 openings n my field and I doubt that there are even 30 people to fill those positions. Some of the posititons have been open for more than two years. They are willing to pay well but there are not enough people. At the high school level many programs are closing simply because there is not a teacher.
     
  18. gb93433

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    I agree. A good indication is that he is older and has not quit learning. Who wouldn't want him to teach their children?
     

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