Grassy Knoll or Lone Gunman?

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Dr. Bob, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

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    As we near the anniversary of JFK's assassination, just wondering how many "conspiracy theorists" are out there?
     
  2. LarryN

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    I lean toward lone gunman. I have an old copy of the book "The unanswered questions about President Kennedy's assassination" that I've had since it was published in I believe 1965. It's a compelling read, but not enough to sway me toward believing many of the theories that abound. Oliver Stone's JFK was such a hodge-podge of theories that I hope nobody bases their opinions on that account of events.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    The lone gunman may be the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American public. The lone gunman theory is a physical impossibility. There are too many bullets, too many curves in those bullets, and too much damage from a "pristine" bullet found on the stretcher.

    It was very convenient that Oswald was killed, thus preventing any real trial. The autopsy was carried on in total secrecy with very if any written notations. There is much that has never been revealed, now 40 years past the date. The Warren Commission had a directive to find for a certain conclusion.

    But I don't want to be too direct so I won't say anymore :D
     
  4. LarryN

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    Just in general, I'm not big on "conspiracy theories". I think that people like Texe Marrs, and his utterly off-the-wall kind of stuff, has largely ruined me from believing in certain things.
     
  5. Dina

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    I am totally with Pastor Larry on this. There were way too many questions left unanswered. Oswald was what he said he was, a patsy. Plus the fact the info that IS there has recently (a year or so ago?) been voted to keep it sealed; guess those that were involved are still alive.
     
  6. LarryN

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    (President) Gerald Ford of course is still around (he's pushing 90 now). I wonder if he's said anything in the past few years about his time as a member of the Warren Commission?
     
  7. fromtheright

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    I also agree with Pastor Larry. There are far too many unanswered questions that can't be answered by the lone gunman theory. Though I'm not wild about the liberal tilt, an excellent book on the subject that convinced me of this is High Treason.
     
  8. Baptist Believer

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    I'm confident that there was a conspiracy.

    I've been to Dealey Plaza on numerous occasions (twice to go to the Sixth-Floor Museum and walk the plaza - the rest of the time I had business or pleasure on Dallas' West End) and I can't figure out how the lone gunman theory can possibly be true.

    The most likely scenerio given the layout of the plaza and the testimony of many witnesses (including police officers) is that there were at least two persons shooting -- one almost certainly from behind the picket fence on the infamous "grassy knoll".
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    My kids at age 10-12 used to run up on the grassy knoll and then would go over the bridges, stand at every conceivable angle. Playing "gunman" after church on Sunday morning - kids find odd things to play!

    The cenotaph (coupla blocks away) is sure not much of a memorial. But to have any at all is saying something good for Texas.
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Grassy Knoll. LBJ was probably complicit with the plan to kill JFK.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Johnv

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    Although difficult, but not impossible, I sway towards the lone gunman. The evidence for a grassy knoll suspect is highly speculative. Additionally, the headwound is consistent with a shot from the rear, regardless of what Oliver Stone thinks. Clearly, he's not a ballistics trajectory expert.

    However, I think the "majic bullet" found on the stretcher was planted. Hence, there is at least some semblence of conspiracy. But so far as the act itself, lone gunmen from the 6th floor of the school book depository.
     
  12. Jude

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    Been to the Texas School Book depository myself. Walked around, stood behind the 'picket fence' and the place where the 'zagruder'(?) film was taken. From my angle behind the fence, a 'shot' would have been easy. Oswald fired shots, yes, but he did not fire them alone. The last shot, that 'threw' JFK's head violently back, came from the FRONT. We will not know who else was involved...too much time has passed.
     
  13. swaimj

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    What was that headline in the satirical newspaper, The Onion several years back? JFK ASSASSINATED: CIA, FBI, MAFIA, Communists, GOP, Johnson, Nixon, and Agents of Fidel Castro Attack President in a Hail of Gunfire--Kennedy Struck 47 Times! :D

    In the Warren Commission's favor are cold, hard facts. They have the gun. They have Oswald's fingerprints on the gun. They have three bullets which were fired from the gun. They have sound recordings and the Zapruder film, both of which indicate three shots and only three shots being fired.

    I am open to evidence to the contrary. While many conspiracy theories have been offered in the last 40 years, no credible, coherent alternative has been advanced. Still waiting....
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    Count the bullets...

    1.) A bystander is hit by a bullet that missed the limo and fractures the curb. (1 bullet)

    2.) Kennedy has a entry wound in his back between his shoulder blades. Unless we move the wound farther up his back like the Warren Commission did (which is contrary to the autopsy evidence) it is very difficult to believe that the bullet was able to move upward into Kennedy's throat and come out through his neck and then hit Connelly in so many places -- leaving fragments in his body -- without being damaged. (1 bullet in the back)

    3.) The "magic" bullet that the Warren Commission supposes that somehow caused the neck wound in Kennedy and several wounds in Connelly, leaving fragments in Connelly's wrist without being damaged. (1 bullet)

    4.) The bullet that fragmented Kennedy's head. (1 bullet)

    There are at least four bullets there with strong evidence that the neck wound to Kennedy came from the front. At best Oswald's rifle could have only pumped out three shots -- an it's very unlikely that they could be accurate shots from the angle of the sixth floor window. Furthermore, the sightlines from the sixth floor window are extremely complicated (through the limbs of a live oak tree) instead of a clean shot when the limo was heading directly toward the window a few moments earlier.

    It literally doesn't add up.

    There's plenty of evidence that there was a conspiracy. I have no idea who did it. Kennedy certainly had enough enemies because of the assasinations he had ordered and his family's long history with organized crime.

    Come to Dallas and walk the site and it will be fairly clear. I was pretty skeptical of the theories until I actually saw the plaza about 13 years ago. (The first time I saw the plaza, they were filming the reenactment of the assasination for JFK. I went after they had wrapped for the day and walked through the area. It was pretty interesting because they had changed out the road signs and restored the facade of the Texas School Book Depository to its 1963 condition.)
     
  15. Johnv

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    That's not what the Zapruder film shows. It shows a large wound blasting out from the front right of the head. With ballistics, entry wounds are small, and exit wounds are large. Had the shot come from the front, the exit wound would have been in the rear of the head, exploding to the rear of the vehicle.

    Also, so far as JFK's head moving back and to the left, this is also consistent with a rear entry shot. The resonance of a bullet entering the skull would move the skull towards the shooter. Numerous ballistics tests on skulls have shown this.
     
  16. Johnv

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    If Kennedy and Connoly had been sitting upright, and facing forward, then you'd be right. But they weren't If you put them in the positions they were actually in, turning and waving to rowds, then a single bullet path lines up: Entering JFK's back, exiting his neck, and entering Connoly and shattering his wrist.

    That being said, the "magic bullet" found on the stretcher was, imo, planted. It resembles a bullet fired into cotton wadding, not a bullet fired into a cadaver. But this does not discount the evidence that one bullet passed through both JFK and COnnolly prior to the fatal shot to the back of Kennedy's head.
     
  17. Dina

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    Perhaps, I am mistaken on this, but I thought witnesses said the entry wound was as the Right temple. Which would explain why the back of skull is missing. The exit wound being the back of the head. Which is consistant with what you are saying as well as ME's, Pathologist's, and what I have seen in my own experience and research. Entry wounds tend to be just slightly larger than the bullet, where exit wounds are much larger in comparison.
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    That's not what the Zapruder film shows. It shows a large wound blasting out from the front right of the head. With ballistics, entry wounds are small, and exit wounds are large. Had the shot come from the front, the exit wound would have been in the rear of the head, exploding to the rear of the vehicle.</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, the back of Kennedy's skull was shattered according to the autopsy.
     
  19. Baptist Believer

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    If Kennedy and Connoly had been sitting upright, and facing forward, then you'd be right. But they weren't If you put them in the positions they were actually in, turning and waving to rowds, then a single bullet path lines up: Entering JFK's back, exiting his neck, and entering Connoly and shattering his wrist.</font>[/QUOTE]So you believe that a bullet shot from the sixth floor of a nearby building (a downward trajectory of at least 45 degrees) hit Kennedy in the back (well below the neck) them traveled up his body and took a turn, came out his neck (going through the knot of his necktie) and into Connelly? The only way I can conceive of that would be if Kennedy was laying on top of Connelly, both in a horizontal position.
     
  20. SpiritualMadMan

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    If Lee Harvey was as good as they say... Then only one gunman would be required.

    However, greed usually causes men to hedge their bets, so I lean towards more than one gunman.

    On the other side the jerk rearward could have been some type of whiplash effect? I don't know.

    There were so many people involved in a situation that made panic and confusion rampant.

    There were too many people involved and too many perceptions for any commission to sort out without some pre-conceived direction to start in.

    Without incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, evidence that could be easily lost or removed in the confusion, the Warren Commission went with what it thinks it knew to be fact. IMHO

    If I remember correctly Lee Harvey had a smug look of 'winning' and 'not really in trouble' right up to the time Ruby shot him?

    That would make a conspiracy and pay-off look more plausible. Lee expected to be hustled off to safety somewhere or serve life in some Federal Resort (er, penitentiary).

    But, he *had* to be killed because every day that went by was a risk he'd slip up and let something out about what really happened.
     

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