Great white throne judgment:

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by mima, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. mima

    mima
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    The unsaved of all ages are going to stand before the Lord at the great white throne judgment and be judged.But will the saved of all ages also be at the great white throne judgment?
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    Mima,

    From what I understand, No. We will stand at the judgment seat of Christ and be judged according to our works, but it is not the Great White Throne judgment.
     
  3. blackbird

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    SFIC?? I believe that mima is asking----"Will Believers be AT the GWTJ---as in "spectators"
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    blackbird, my Brother,

    I do not see them at the Great White Throne Judgment. There is no mention of such in the Bible. Why would God subject the believers to seeing their loved ones being worthy of only living in eternal torment?
     
  5. SuperBaptist

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    Thus saith the man!
     
  6. OldRegular

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    Yes. Otherwise why would the Book of Life have been opened?

    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
     
  7. SuperBaptist

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    You see, OldReg, we are not among the dead, we are born again and will NOT be judged according to our works; instead Jesus' record will go to judgement in our stead as we are saved by faith. Otherwise we will all go to hell.
     
  8. mima

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    To more clearly delineate the problem let me ask this question. Which comes first, the resurrection or the great white throne judgment? Since after the resurrection as discussed in first Thessalonians Chapter 4, giving special attention to verse 17 were the Scriptures state" and so shall we ever be with the Lord".--or-------- the great white throne judgment as detailed in Revelations 20:11-15.
    Considering that we know for certain that the Lord Jesus Christ is the judge at the great white throne the problem becomes very clear. Because if the saved of all ages are ever with a Lord from the resurrection on and the great white throne judgment takes place after the resurrection we the saved will have to be accompanying the Lord in attendance at the great white throne judgment. Two others see this as a problem or a confirmation of our attendance?
     
  9. MRCoon

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    I have always believed we (Christians) would be there as spectators...but I struggled with the verse that implies 'there will be no tears in Heaven'...and this will truly be a sorrowful time for all.
     
  10. Martin

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    ==Will the saved stand at the Great White Throne? I doubt it. The term translated "dead" in Revelation 20 (vss 11-15) is "nekros". The term can define physical death (see Matt 10:8 as one example). However it is also used in terms of spiritual death and about those who are doomed for eternity (see Matt 8:22 or Col 2:13 as two examples). In Revelation 20:11-15 the term "dead" (nekros) is being used in a negative way. These are "the dead" those who are unsaved. They come from the sea, from hades, and they are thrown into the lake of fire.

    Let's notice some more things as well.

    1. They are dead. Believers in Christ do not die (Jn 11:25-26). Yes we may physically die but we are not dead. These people in Revelation 20:11-15 have clearly physically died but they are also "the dead". These are not believers in the Risen Lord of Life (Jesus Christ).

    2. They are judged according to their works. Thats right. Every word (Matt 12:36), every deed (Rev 22:12), and every thought and motive (Heb 4:13) will be judged. Nothing will be left out. They will be rewarded (w/ punishment) for their sins (whole lifetimes of sin).

    3. They are cast into hell (lake of fire) because their names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life (Rev 20:14-15). Please notice, and this is VERY important, that the dead are NOT cast into hell because of their deeds (works). If they were we would ALL be cast into hell since we have ALL sinned. If it is not their deeds that condemn them what does? The fact that they have not believed in Jesus Christ and thus their names are not recorded in His Book. It is the rejection of Jesus Christ that sends people to hell. Now I am not saying behavior is important. A person's behavior will usually reveal if they are saved or lost (1Jn 3:9-10).

    It is my understanding of Scripture that Christians will be judged before this point. Many teachers propose a seperate "Judgment Seat of Christ" based on passages like 2Cor 5:10. While that is not directly stated in Scripture it certainly seems like a very likely theory. Christians will be judged and rewarded for their behavior on earth as well. This will probably occur at some earlier judgment. I really, really doubt that any believer would stand in the Great White Throne Judgment. I am convinced that it is for unbelievers only.

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    I did not say we would be judged, just that we would be there. My judgment was taken by Jesus Christ when He saved me.

    As for your comment you might read 2 Timothy 4:1 [NKJV] I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
     
  12. Hope of Glory

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    Saying that we will not be judged for our deeds in the flesh not only contradicts Scripture, but it gives us a license to sin.
     
  13. JackRUS

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    No, unless we are there as observers. We will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ to give an account of ourselves and to receive our rewards.
     
  14. DeafPosttrib

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    Matthew 25:31-46 is the clearest passage mentioned about the only ONE judgment day follow at Christ's coming, not two or three judgment days according dispensationalism's doctrine.

    I better go to 3rd shift job now. Will talk more on this tomorrow.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    au contrair, The Word of God plainly says we will be judged according to our works.

    1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
     
  16. OldRegular

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    Before anyone gets too excited about rewards they would do well to consider the following Scripture:

    Luke 17:7-10, NKJV
    7 “And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’?
    8 “But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
    9 “Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not.
    10 “So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’”


    Luke 12:48, NKJV “But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
     
  17. mima

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    Some hold this view; that the saved of all ages will be in attendance at the great white throne judgment for the purpose of being witnesses against the lost. Example. You have made a direct and clear witness concerning the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and of the forgiveness and salvation given to those that accept the Lord. But this person dies lost.
    You next see this person is at the great white throne judgment. And this man is saying, wait a minute lord I never had a chance, I did not know. Then the Lord, points to you and says to the condemned man. What do you think this man was talking about that day ??? ago? Another words you will serve as a witness that the man was told and was shown the way of salvation.
     
  18. Me4Him

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    When Jesus returns (First Resurrection) all the "Saved" up to that point in time will be Judged for "Rewards" at the "BEMA SEAT" Judgment, the "Unsaved" (Tares) are cast into hell to await Judgment at the GWT, Jesus will bind up Satan, then establish the "Mill Reign".

    Lu 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

    Lu 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

    17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

    Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.

    4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

    5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

    "AFTER" the Mill Reign is over, satan is loosed, then the GWT, Hell will "give up" all the unsaved dead and people who lived/saved/died "DURING" the Mill Reign, will be judged, they are the "Sheep" among the "Goats".


    Saints who were "JUDGED" at the "BEMA SEAT" and lived/reigned with Jesus will not be judged at the GWT, this is why scripture says this Judgement has "NO POWER" over them.

    Every person whoever lived will be present at the GWT, but it will be an event quickly "forgotten", never to be remembered by the saved.


    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

    Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


    BTW, The "Gospel" is to be preached, "FOR A WITNESS".
     
  19. Ed Edwards

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    An original (but not recent) essay by Ed Edwards:
    ------------------------------------------------

    Five Judgements

    The Lord God is a judging God

    "To judge" can mean three things in the Holy Bible:

    A. to discern between good and evil (human function)
    B. to condemn, usually falsely (human function)
    C. to reward the just & punish the evil (Godly function)

    The Five Judgements:

    1. Believers for SIN on the Cross
    WHO: All who will Believe
    WHEN: 33AD
    WHERE: Jerusalem
    WHY: The Lord God is a merciful God.
    HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

    How to get from judgement 1 to judgement 2
    (and avoid judgements 3, 4, or 5):

    Romans 10:9 (KJV): "That if thou
    shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
    believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
    the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    "

    2. Judgement Seat of Christ
    WHO: Believers for works
    WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
    Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
    the Tribulation
    WHERE: Heaven
    WHY: to assign rewards (including
    the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
    to the redeemed for their good works
    HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

    3. Judgement of Yisrael under Antichrist
    (Ezekiel 22:17-22 Time of Jacob's Trouble; Ezekiel 20:34-38;
    Jeremiah 30:1-24; Revelation 6-19)
    WHO: Yisrael
    WHEN: during the Tribulation
    WHERE: earth
    WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises
    HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: Great Tribulation

    4. Throne of His Glory judgement
    (AKA: Sheep and Goats judgement, Matthew 25:31-46,
    2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15)
    WHO: the nations: the living survivers of the Great Tribulation
    (these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
    WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
    WHERE: Jerusalem
    WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
    who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
    HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
    WHAT: the cursed to Hell; the blessed to the Millennial Age

    5. Great White Throne judgement
    (Revelation 20:11:15)
    WHO: the wicked dead
    WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
    WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
    WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
    HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment

    NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
    judgements above does not preclude other specific
    or general judgements. One place on the net i found
    a chart where TWENTY-FOUR judgements were delineated.
    The Lord God is a judging God and His hand is not shortened
    by His revelation to us nor
    by our understaning of His revelation to us.

    May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

    --compilation by ed,
    incurable Jesus Phreaque
     
  20. Me4Him

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    ED

    I agree with you "sequence" "EXCEPT", :eek: :D the "Sheep" and "Goats" Judgement when Jesus returns to end the trib.

    Angel reapers gather the unsaved and cast them into hell at this time, they don't "APPEAR" before Jesus for judgement, this is the "Wheat/Tares" separation.

    Just as we won't stand "judgement twice" (at the GWT) neither will the "Tares" stand judgment twice, once at Jesus's coming and again at the GWT.

    The only time "Goats" stand Judgment (Appear) before Jesus is at the GWT, when Hell give up the dead in it, and when "every knee will bow".

    Other than that, "Right on". [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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