Greatest threats to the future of fundamentalism

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Siegfried, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. Siegfried

    Siegfried
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    What do you think are the three greatest threats to the future of Baptist fundamentalism?

    A poll would be nifty but too tough to list all possible responses. Maybe we can start one after everyone gives their nominations.

    Here are my top 3 (at this moment) in no particular order:
    1. Departure of rising generations of leadership due to the failures of previous generations.
    2. Failure to communicate the supremacy of God and doctrinal orthodoxy to the laity.
    3. Focusing separation on non-biblical absolutes.
     
  2. Refreshed

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    I think those are kinda fuzzy.

    My top three are:

    1. Jerry Falwell - sold out to the SBC, Liberty U. has become an ecumenical hotbed.
    2. Peter S. Ruckman - devisive and uncharitable and decidedly unable to contend for the faith, not to mention being divorced twice and remaining a pastor, thereby making Fundies look like fools.
    3. Contemporary praise and worship - lowering the standards in our congregations to make them acceptable to the world and worldly will kill Fundamentalism faster than anything.

    That's bound to ruffle some feathers (not my intent).

    [ January 10, 2003, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Refreshed ]
     
  3. Abiyah

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    This is based purely upon my 50+ years in a fun-
    damentalist church, not upon where I go now.

    1. The fear of education and the love of ignor-
    ance.
    2. The "my way or the highway"' attitude re-
    garding music and Bible translations.
    3. Dictator pastors and preachers.
     
  4. Refreshed

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    Are you kidding, I thought those were Fundy tenets!

    Bwahahahahaha. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] I can joke about that, I'm an Independent Fundamental Baptist Preacher Boy (when do I lose that title? Next year when I'm 27 or do I have to have two kids)? [​IMG]
     
  5. Bugman

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    In no particular order:

    -Ecuminalism
    -Embracing the world
    -Forgetting what has happened in the past

    Bryan
     
  6. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Love your sense of humor, Refreshed!

    In all seriousness, though, I think that this type of
    fundamentalist lives in fear:
    </font>
    • Fear that education will prove
      them wrong, when it actually has
      the opposite effect.</font>
    • Fear of losing control, when
      reality is that if they will teach the
      Word and allow our God to do the
      work, it gets done correctly and
      He is in control.</font>
    • Fear of letting Him be in control.</font>
    • Fear of letting go of the extra-
      biblical rules, because in doing so,
      they may need to admit that some
      were always wrong, and admitting
      they are wrong (or were ever wrong)
      goes against their flesh and their
      pride.</font>
     
  7. Refreshed

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    Abiyah,

    I strongly agree with the dictatorial pastors. I have heard that some pastors want their congregants to get permission before travelling, etc. That is not from God's school. That is from the Hitler/Stalin/Franco/Atilla school of people control. Not good.

    Regarding the education. While I agree with you, education can sometimes be used to draw someone from God himself. For example, education taught me evolution was true, the Bible teaches the opposite. I'm talking strictly a secular education, mind you, while I think you are possibly referring to a deeper study of the Bible.

    Jason :D

    p.s. I would have to add dictatorial pastors to my list.
     
  8. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    You are right: I was refering to biblical studies.
    However, since you brought it up, I believe that
    in biblical studies, such questions as those of
    evolution, adaptation, Creation, biblical inerrancy,
    Messiah's physical resurrection and return, pro-
    phecy, world views regarding believers, etc.,
    should be thorough explored from all points of
    view. Why? It gives the student a foundation upon
    which to stand when the proverbial winds of dis-
    sent become gale-strength. Surely, without this
    knowledge, many have been lost from fundamen-
    talism.
     
  9. Siegfried

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    Here's some more extensive definition.

    1. Many younger guys in their 20s and 30s who are in vocational ministry are disillusioned by the inconsistency, rancor, and domineering approach that is prevalent within the previous generations. They acknowledge that they don't have answers to all the issues, but they are not encouraged to search for those answers within Fundamentalism when the typical response to them is "When you're older and wiser like we are you'll understand."

    2. The typical church member knows plenty about how long skirts should be, why you shouldn't go to movies, and why CCM is evil. They don't understand that we obey God because of his immeasurable greatness, not because he's ready to zap us when we sin. Church members know all about the order of events in the end times, but if you asked them how to know God's will for their lives or to explain the ministry of the Holy Spirit they would be dumbfounded.

    3. "We need to be motivated by grace, not manipulated by guilt," as one pastor put it. Where biblical doctrine and teaching on practical issues are not specifically developed, believers are responsible to deal with others in charity, not with condemnation. Romans 14 teaches that we give account for ourselves because we work directly for God, not for other Christians. Christianity is about knowing God, not about a list of do's and don'ts.
     
  10. Refreshed

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    Pardon me for picking on one aspect of your post...great post, by the way...but referring to number two:

    I honestly believe that if there was a perfect church out there that most of the people wouldn't listen and apply even the deepest things of the word to the bible that were preached at that church. It's not the delivery that necessarily needs changed, it is the reception. Maybe, just maybe, lack of motivation in the congregation (seperate from a pastor's ability to motivate) to apply the bible to their lives is the most destructive to fundamentalism.
     
  11. Daniel David

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    Here are three that I have previously considered:

    1. Not understanding why we are fundamentalists and what separates us from other "christians".

    2. Those who hijack the term to push their own agenda.

    3. Agnosticism toward biblical issues.

    Despite what you might believe about these issues, I am amazed that fundamentalism has survived in spite of some of the trends that developed such as:

    1. Jack Hyles' model for pastors.

    2. KJVO.

    3. Revivalism.

    Again, for the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter where you actually stand on the three listed immediately above. The fact is that fundamentalism is much bigger than any of those.

    - a friend

    [ January 10, 2003, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Kal-El ]
     
  12. Refreshed

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    Although I am KJVO, I would have to strongly agree with you that fundamentalism is bigger than those issues.

    Jason
     
  13. John3v36

    John3v36
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    Not read your Bible and not praying.
     
  14. John3v36

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    What is KJVO? :confused:
     
  15. Daniel David

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    KJVO is the belief that the KJV is the exclusive word of God in english. Other translations at best are incomplete and at worse satanic (depends on who you talk to). Verses that seem to support their view on preservation are offered and comparisons to other version are made.

    There is more but beyond the above, you could go from good, sound people to sensationalists.

    - a friend

    [ January 10, 2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Kal-El ]
     
  16. Siegfried

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    I think you're actually adding a new threat, which I had not considered, that might challenge my top three.

    * Regenerated church membership

    You seem to be suggesting that many in our churches are not demonstrating progressive change towards the image of Christ. That strikes at the heart of what I believe being a Christian is. Salvation isn't a fire escape, but a recognition that Christ and everything He offers and demands is better for me than anything I could ever get by myself.

    You may or may not agree with my expression of the problem, but thanks for bringing it to my mind, regardless.

    Your handling of the term "motivate" is critical. If the pastor has to motivate his congregation, there's something missing in the congregation. What the pastor is able to do and must do is to consistently present his congregation with a picture of who God is and what He has done in Christ through the multi-faceted perspective of the whole counsel of the Word. That alone will be motivation enough for a genuine believer.
     
  17. John3v36

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    KJVO is the belief that the KJV is the exclusive word of God in english. Other translations at best are incomplete and at worse satanic (depends on who you talk to). Verses that seem to support their view on preservation are offered and comparisons to other version are made.

    There is more but beyond the above, you could go from good, sound people to sensationalists.

    - a friend
    </font>[/QUOTE]Okay! That make me a KJVM. (KJV mostly)
     
  18. Refreshed

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    As for the "fire escape," I think that is permissible, coming from:

    Jude:1:22: And of some have compassion, making a difference:
    Jude:1:23: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

    You are dead on. Just preach the word, the whole counsel of God, and the true believers will grow.

    Jason
     
  19. Siegfried

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    Yet this passage is speaking to those who would warn people who are on the way to judgment, not those actually on the way themselves. I don't think this passage supports fire escape ALONE as the biblical pattern of an individual's motivation to salvation.
     
  20. Refreshed

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    No, as a matter of fact, it promotes two ways in this passage. The first is through compassion, and the second is through fear. Some people are won in different ways.

    Jason
     

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