Greek; Enhancement or hinderance?

Thank you. And I apologise if I have misunderstood your mindset.
Dave

 

Thousands of commentaries have been written on the Greeks text of all or part of the New Testament, and I have a few hundred of them in my home library. These books assume a good knowledge of the Greek language, including both the vocabulary and the grammar, and Greek words are not translated and grammatical terms are not defined or explained, making these thousands of volumes unintelligible to those who do not know Greek.

Many of these commentaries were written by men who made a single book of the New Testament their primary field of study for a large portion of their life. Ernest DeWitt Burton, for example, made the Epistle to the Galatians his primary field of study for 25 years before writing his commentary on the Greek text of that Epistle. And before those 25 years began, he spent a number of years studying the vocabulary and grammar of the Greek New Testament.

Some may ask what there is about the Greek text of the Epistle to the Galatians (and the other books of the New Testament) that one could spend 25 years of their life studying it only to have their work largely superseded by new studies of the Greek text, but they will not learn the answer to that question until they have spent a few years learning Greek and then reading Burton’s commentary on Galatians and then following up their study of this epistle by reading the newer works on it.

 

I have known many people who memorized scriptures but never studied them to find out what they mean, and thus they use them and quote them out of context confusing not just themselves, but everyone around them. Memorizing the Scriptures without understanding them is, at best, a horrible waste of time. If a man knows and understands the Bible, God is more than able to bring the needed verses to his mind when they are needed. And what is better, to memorize scriptures or translations of the scriptures?

 

Greek is nice to know as you study ...
But, as Charles pointed out ...
... but, most Greek scholarship does not utilize language ... merely the work of predescesors (sp) ...

 

but, most Greek scholarship does not utilize language ... merely the work of predescesors (sp) ...

That's not exactly what I said - but it is true for some authors.

My point is that to have a knowledge of Greek strong enough to allow one to comment intelligently on the text and to critique other commentators takes years and years of scholarly study.

I think it IS good for one to learn some Greek, or even Hebrew, if feasible. Knowledge is a positive thing. But language is a complex thing - and Hellenistic Greek was a tongue in transition. Many basic seminary level grammars and even commentaries are full of 19th century linguistic scholarship and contain material material that is not entirely correct. The entire scheme of tense and temporal grammaticalization is being reexamined. The notion that an aorist tense conveys punctiliar action is out the window!

What this means is that one who has a few semesters of Greek, but nevers studies Classical Greek or reads any contemporary linguistic work on Greek does not have adequate background to critique things in a scholarly manner! That's not to say his education won't help with sermon preparation or Bible study.

 

We don't all have to learn a subject to the point of being a scholar on the subject to make practical use of it.
Not everybody in America speaks perfect English,yet most speak read ,and use it for everyday living and do quite well.So learning a foriegn language at this level (perhaps greek) would be very useful.

 

We don't all have to learn a subject to the point of being a scholar on the subject to make practical use of it.

Very true. I think learning Greek is a GOOD THING. I simply think we should make students realize the diverse linguistic issues in mastering a language. Like I said the student with 2 years of Greek who thinks he's ready to exegete the Bible by himself can potentially do more harm than good.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

HankD

 

IMO, the bottom line to the OP:

Knowledge of Greek (and Hebrew, for that matter) can be extremely useful to the student of the Bible. I doubt anyone really disputes that.

I don't think I would trust anyone with only a year or two of Greek as a final authority.

To my knowledge, there are 3 outstanding English translations today - the KJV, NASB, & ESV. Any one of these, even without reference works, is sufficient to gain a working knowledge of the Word, IMHO. That is to say, to comprehend God's overall plan, see the revelation of the Saviour from Genesis to Revelation, and to get to know the Author. One good translation (and perhaps one that is not so good) and the Holy Spirit is more than enough to accomplish that. That said, the addition of Strong's, Vine's, a good encyclopedia and a few other references are great enhancements to Bible study at any level.

Further, I would say that the exclusion of the Holy Spirit's assistance in the scholarly pursuit of the Bible has been the cause of much pain, waste, and confusion over the last two millenia. Having learned the hard way myself, and suffering because of it, I trust no man.

Finally, I would argue it is not necessary to be a highly educated scholar of Greek to attain it's benefit, as it pertains to the understanding of scripture, or even highly educated at all. The deeper things of scripture are there for any serious Bible student provided he knows how to research something, and given access to the materials. The wealth of material so readily available, and so easily accessible today through the internet, opens up this opportunity up to anyone.

As an example, I recently spent more than a month researching the correct translation of a scripture. Most of that was spent on one word (20 years ago, I would've needed access to a major theological library and 3 or 4 more months to get the same result). That was an exception, of course, but it was worth it because it unlocked a new level of understanding and, as a bonus, a whole host of seemingly unrelated things I had on the shelf unexpectedly fell into place. It would have taken many years for me to learn the necessary Greek, or in this case Hebrew, to make such an exegesis, and even then I could have easily missed it, and many have. But it wasn't necessary because the work had already been done for me. All I had to do was find it.

I write this in the hopes that it will encourage others who would like to get deeper in the Word but may not think they have sufficient education or experience. I AM NO SCHOLAR. But I don't have to be. I just go to them when I need them. And it really isn't that often. Also, it has been my experience that the deeper I go, the more the Holy Spirit is involved and the more dependent on Him I become. And I work to keep it that way since anything I learn is worthless if it's not the truth. I keep two scriptures taped to my monitor (one above, one below), and consider them the cardinal rules of learning the things of God: "Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifies" and "if any man think he knows anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know".

God Bless.

 

I find it amazing the extrmemes that some go on this type of discussion. You have the extreme of people thinking that if they know the original languages they are an authority. And then you have the other extreme that thinks it is ok to be ignorant of what the Holy Spirit originally inspired in the original languages.

Is learning the original languages a help? Without a doubt YES! Pastors specifically should do all they can to study the Word and be able to rightly divide the Word.

Does learning the original languages make a person an authority? Absolutely not! We should study humbly and ever in awe of our great God and His Word!

In the end, stay away from the extremes.

 

The charismatics have managed to transcend the limits of the language of the bible too.

 

Even if we DO understand propitiation, reconciliation, imputation, sanctification, regeneration, et al (and I do mean 100+ such words), the original words in Greek have GREATER DEPTH and CLARIFYING MEANING that will be missed with even a good knowledge of the English Bible.

What these words also have is relative semantic domains. Greek verbs are generally more nuanced than English ones - and looking up the Greek word can give some insight. But depending upon the word and the intended use it can point you in the wrong direction! In English we use words for different reasons - and we sometimes use the same word in different ways. Once again MOST know just enough to be dangerous!

Context is everything.

 

I should clarify. I was not refering to commentaries, dictionaries or other general reference materials, although many of them are outstanding scholastic works. Here, I refer to the work of cutting-edge Hebrew and Greek scholars, the point being that specialized information, on virtually any theological question, is now available to the layman.

The example in my post above consisted of published works from 3 or 4 different Hebrew scholars, who referenced other material, all of which related to the particular verse I was trying to understand. So, I was able to get several views of the particular text-critical problem with complete freedom to make up my own mind and ask the Holy Spirit to help me. The days of prejudice are over, due to the impersonal internet. Anyway, after several weeks of research, the decisive reference work was a wonderfully written 20+ page doctoral dissertation on the exact question and verse I was dealing with.

I wish I were proficient in Greek and Hebrew. But I don't consider it a great disadvantage, at all. God has given us, the ordinary people, the greatest resources of the age. We can live normal, Christian lives and simultaneously have access to the same information as the most dedicated scholar. From any Christian perspective, that's a winner.

 

av1611jim: //Nevertheless, your reasoning falls so very short of the "reformer's" prayer that God would have every plough-boy know more of Scripture than the "elite scholars" of the day.
Hence, according to your (not so) logical premise: the resultant outcome of all the translation work of that great period was in vain.//

I think you fail to see that English gets you 98% there
and Greek the last 2%. You ask: is the Greek better?
Yes. You fail to ask "How much better?" to which i'll
answer - not all that much.

 

AV1611Jim,

“The reformers prayer”? Like that is supposed to be authoritative? Are we supposed to evaluate our reasoning based on the prayers of the reformers or the Word? Aside from that question, as noted by Iveyleaguer, excellent Greek and Hebrews tools are available to the average “plough-boy” so that his understanding is far beyond that of the most “elite scholars” of the reformation. The average person will NEVER have a better understanding of the Word of God than the ones who have dedicated and invested their lives into the study and teaching of the word of God. No one who is a weekend warrior will develop the proficiency of a “Delta Operative” who lives and breathes his profession 24/7. Such a position betrays some relative degree of ignorance.

Your criticism of Dr. Bob is quite misplaced.

And, based on your chosen moniker, I “expected such a response from you” AVJim. I assume you are aware that you probably do not use a true 1611? Or is even that expecting too much? The belief that God has promised to “perfectly preserve His Word” in every language is predicated upon recent tradition and a total ignorance of the Hebrew grammar in Psalm 12. The fact is that there are points where the KJV NT deviates from ALL EXTANT GREEK MANUSCRIPTS. Would you suggest that this is due to...

1) a failure by God to perfectly preserve His Word in the English language, or
2) a failure by the KJV translation committee, or
3) evidence that God has restored His Word that has been lost?

Those are the only three choices I can see. Are you aware of any alternative explanations of the FACT that the KJV does indeed differ from all existing NT Greek manuscripts at some points? The idea that God expects the average plough-boy to have as much understanding as those who have dedicated their lives to the study and teaching of the Word of God is in direct conflict with 1Tim 1:12; 3:2; 2Tim 2:2. The “arrogance” a weekend scholar who thinks that he can have the same degree of understanding as one who has been taught by others who have likewise dedicated their lives fully to the study and teaching of the Word never ceases to amaze me. Not until Benjamin Wilkinson and J.J. Ray was such a thought even considered for long. You KJVO’s are a great mystery to me. But after many hundreds of hours spent reading them, I am no longer surprised, only amused.

Anyone who would suggest that a knowledge of the original languages of Scripture is of little value to the exegete is not even qualified to comment on the subject! (IMHO)

 

Rjprince: "I assume you are aware that you probably do not use a true 1611?"

He and i both joined BB=baptist board, in Aug 2002.
You assume correctly, i done told him a bunch.

BTW, did you hear the good news?
E-sword now has a free downloadable
True KJV1611 as well
as other fine Bible
Translations, Comentaries, and Bible Study
aids.

 

THANKS ED!

I haue now added the KJV-1611 vnto my collection of e-sword uersions.