Griffey Jr retiring

Discussion in 'Sports' started by ccrobinson, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
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    One of the greatest centerfielders of all time has retired. Jayson Stark of espn.com wrote a nice article here. Herein lies the greatness of Junior Griffey.

    Griffey's greatness gets lost in those bad years in Cincinnati where he kept getting hurt.

    On the local sports radio morning show yesterday, Seth Everett (btw, I could listen to baseball guys like Stark, Everett, Kurkjian, Olney all day) had an analogy for Griffey and Barry Bonds that draws from a popular movie.

    They were both supremely talented, beyond the level of their peers. They both made certain choices that defined what they accomplished and what their legacy is/was.

    Between Griffey and Bonds, which one of them was Darth Vader and which one was Luke Skywalker?
     
  2. TomVols

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    What country music group sang " I try not to think about what might have been......" Diamond Rio, I think?

    As a Cincinnatian (partially, anyway), speaking of a Cincy kid who came home to resurrect a great franchise and see him squander the opportunity......the injuries couldn't be helped, but his horrible relationship with the public, the media, his lack of hustle, his refusal to embrace a town that was dying to embrace him.....I just think so much will be considered wasted.

    That said, Eric Davis was once thought of in this way (though E would hustle) and is now loved in Cincinnati.

    Sorry...I digress.....There hasn't been one shred of evidence that Junior doped. He may be the best pure OF we have had in our generation. I don't know if one is Luke, although Bonds is pereceived as the root of all evil.
     
  3. ccrobinson

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    If based on the choices each player made, it's easy to see who took the path of evil and who didn't.


    Looking at the situation from afar, I always thought Griffey's sole problem in Cincinnati was injuries.
     
  4. TomVols

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    For whatever reason, he never embraced his role with the Reds. It was a refrain heard in the clubhouse, the pressbox, the water cooler....everywhere.

    There's a famous 700 WLW commercial that went on the air the day he was traded to the ChiSox. I'll PM it to you if I can find it. It says volumes.
     
  5. Andy T.

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    I agree that Griffey probably didn't use PED's, and we should respect him for that. However, I think many of his injuries are of his own doing - he was known to not be the hardest worker and did not work out much. I think he relied on his talent alone (and thus, probably the best pure talent baseball has ever seen). If he had a little more gumption, we might have seen something really, really special. So from that perspective, I don't have much respect at all for him. He did not use his talents very wisely.
     
  6. ccrobinson

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    I wasn't aware of this either, but this was during my self-imposed "baseball exile" when I sort of followed baseball, but not nearly with the intensity that I do now. It does make sense that somebody with his level of talent wouldn't work as hard. He never really had to. Not only would that lead to injury, but once his skills started declining, he wouldn't have been able to compensate for it with a superior work ethic.
     
  7. Andy T.

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    Yep, his poor work ethic caught up to him by the time he was 30.
     
  8. ccrobinson

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    After more research, I've been rethinking my position.

    In 2002, he suffered a torn patellar tendon in his right knee and a torn right hamstring. How does poor work ethic cause a torn patellar tendon?

    In 2003, early in the season, Griffey dislocated his right shoulder while diving in the outfield. How does a poor work ethic impact a right shoulder dislocation?

    In July 2004, he tore a hamstring and went on the DL. 2 weeks after coming back, he attempted to make a sliding catch in the OF and tore the same hamstring.

    Not seeing a work ethic problem here. In fact, it looks like Griffey was playing hard to be attempting diving and sliding catches. Maybe Griffey did have a problem with work ethic, but these injuries don't seem to support that contention.
     
  9. TomVols

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    There was a perception that Griffey didn't have a good work ethic, and early on in Cincy I'd say that was accurate. However, there were injuries that were a result of hustle. Problem is, you can look at instances where he didn't hustle out ground balls, wouldn't chase after flies, etc.

    I had seats once right along the RF line. Grif had a ball that was easily catchable. Because it rained just before opening pitch, he admitted he trotted to the ball. Instead of making the third out against the Rockies, two runs scored.

    This was his final year in Cincinnati. I could point to numerous times like this. So Grif did have a good off season regimen (He often trained with Tiger Woods) but it often did not show up between the lines. I don't care what you do in December in the weight room. Get your uniform dirty. That's the Cincinnati way. That's why Ryan Freel got more applause than Grif. That's why Adam Rosales is missed to this day. And that's why Pete Rose will always be Pete.
     
  10. ccrobinson

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    I wonder if Griffey's previous injuries got in his head and kept him from going as all out as he could have, or should have.
     
  11. Andy T.

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    If Griffey worked out in the off-season, it sure didn't show. He got fatter and fatter (and slower and slower) as the years went by. Maybe he should have done more cardio and stretching and he wouldn't have had so many problems with hammies.
     
  12. ccrobinson

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    Would it be possible for you to answer the questions I asked? Or, are you so beholden to your position that you can't be bothered to answer questions from somebody you obviously consider beneath you?
     
  13. TomVols

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    I don't think Griff got fatter at all. He got bigger as a result of some of the weight training and maybe a little more weight. Good grief, you'd think we were talking about Homer Simpson here.
     
  14. Andy T.

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    Like I said, he should've mixed in more cardio and stretching*. He was by no means ripped at all. He looked chubby to me.

    Doctors are now saying that stretching and flexibility are being neglected way too much. Makes a huge difference for an athlete, and even for us everyday folk, in overall health.
     
  15. ccrobinson

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    So, you know for a fact that he didn't do this? What was Griffey's workout regimen like on a daily basis, both in the offseason and during the season?


    Whatever, dude. :rolleyes:
     
  16. convicted1

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    I don't know if I completely agree with the statement you made about the hamstring problems and the lack of a "work ethic". Eric Davis kept himself in tremendous condition, and he had trouble with them it seemed like at least once a year. This is based solely on hustle if you ask me. Trying to beat out a "squibber" in the infield, trying to run down a flyball headed for the gap in right- or left-center, etc. Hamstrings can go "poop" at just about anytime. Isaac Bruce had a lot of trouble with them when he played with the Rams. When you're lean like Davis and Bruce were, I guess they may have made longer strides when they ran, and this could have cause the "hammies" problem.

    I don't think Griffey's problem was work ethic, but rather years of chasing down balls while playing on astroturf.....he played at least 81 games a year in the Kingdome in Seattle. The Reds got him about the time for the injuries started popping up I guess. There was a receiver for the Chicago Bears who blew out both ACL's while running a "deep route" at the old Veteran's stadium, back in the late 80's-early 90's. So, the problem with Griffey was more to do with what he played on, than his lack of work ethic. Once last thing: remember him hustling around third and sliding safely into home to score the winning run in game 5 of the ALDS vs. the Yankees? That right there summed his career up! He was, and always will be, the classiest baseball player of the "roids era". There will not be one baseball expert that will question his stats. Clean all the way to Cooperstown!! Go Reds!!

    Willis
     
  17. Andy T.

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    I could buy your theory. I never questioned Griffey's hustle on the field, especially in his Seattle days (he did start to slack some in Cincy after some of the injuries - gun-shy maybe). But from the reports and hearsay I remember hearing, he was not known for his tremendous workouts and keeping his body in shape. Tom says he heard differently and that Griffey did work out alot, so I guess we have conflicting reports.

    I guess the other thing I would like to know about Griffey - did he study pitchers, work on his swing, etc? Or did he just rely on his natural talent? The latter is always the impression I had of him. Maybe my impressions are completely off-base...or somewhere in the middle.

    Lastly, I know it is the popular opinion to declare Griffey clean, but I think anyone in this era is suspect. I admit that I suspect Griffey less than many others, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't clean.
     

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