Group says faith eroding science

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Martin, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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    Group says faith eroding science

    "While the speakers at the National Press Club unveiling were highly critical of Bush administration policies regarding stem-cell research, global warming, abstinence-only sex education and the teaching of “intelligent design,” they said that their group was non-partisan and that many Democrats were hostile to keeping religion out of public policy."

    ==I am not sure how teaching children not to have dangerous pre-marital sex harms science. I am also not sure how intelligent design, which simply asserts an intelligent force behind the universe and does not depend upon any "holy" book, hurts science. This group maybe non-partisan but they are certainly very much bias in favor of amoral (immoral) evolution.

    In my view creationism, evolution, and intelligent design are philosophies and not hard science. Each is based on a certain set of bias and world views that affect how scientists understand the physical evidence. Personally I accept young-earth creationism but I don't call it hard science. It is a belief about science.
     
  2. Daisy

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    It depends on how that's done. Abstinence only is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go far enough when it refuses to teach children how to have safe sex, why certain practices are more dangerous than others, the mechanics of how the different STDs are spread (instead of only the morals of it) or contained. Too often, abstinence only programs have given out false information about condoms and birth control.

    Lies about evidence harms science and the children.

    Intelligent design doesn't hurt science until it is passed off as science.

    The theory of evolution is an actual working theory, useful in making predictions as well as in explaining what we see in biology (why we test certain drugs on rats and pigs instead of spiders and sharks to predict how they will work on people). Creationist and ID don't have a theory, make no predictions and are not useful in research.
     
  3. Martin

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    ==I am not sure teaching "children how to have safe sex" is such a good idea. They should be warned about the dangers of pre-marital sex and they should be warned that no system of "protection" is fool proof or 100%. Abstinence is the safest bet all the way around. I would support, however, teaching how various protections are used (etc). So I suppose I am not really an abstinence only person. I just don't see how it harms scientific advancement.


    ==The problem here is that many ID supports believe in evolution and millions of years. They would argue that their studies prove that there must be an intelligent force behind the universe. Like I said evolution, ID, and creationism are all philosophies about science. None of those "working theories" are real hard science. Each depends upon a certain level of bias.


    ==I don't know that such is true. If macro-evolution did not occur then it cannot be helpful in anyway. The first thing they must do is convince people that the evolutionary philosophy is correct. I like what my university biology teacher, state university, said about evolution. It was one of those large classrooms (stadium seating) and he put his foot on the first step and looked up at us and said, "Its just a theory". I think he was right about it being just a theory (a theory he believed, btw) but I would go one step further. I would say it is just a philosophy about how to understand science.

    ==Considering the "fact" that there are ID scientists all over the place I can't go along with your statement. They work in universities, labs, NASA, and medical centers. Keep in mind that not all ID folks reject evolution.
     
  4. Daisy

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    The whole "philosophy" seems to boil down to two arguments: 1) If it looks designed, it was designed and 2) Some things are too complex to have evolved ie irreducible complexity.

    Have they ever published an actual study in a peer-reviewed science journal that has not been subsequently falsified?

    But it is actually being used today.

    Why would that be first? Also, it is not really a philosophy in itself, it is the comprehensive theory that scientists, biologists, have found best explains the data.

    "Just a theory" is the same as "just the best explanation". It is not a "philosophy" to understand science (it does nothing for understanding cosmology, chemistry or physics), just biology including genetics.

    Yes, but how do they utilise ID in their work?
     
  5. Martin

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    ==I don't know. What I do know, however, is that scientists who have openly professed a belief in ID have a hard time getting anything published in the academic world.

    ==How is, so called, macro-evolution being used today?


    ==Because you must first accept the atheistic world-view that is behind non-ID evolutionary theory. Evolution is a philosophy, and not a hard science, because it involves how scientists view the hard evidence.


    ==Genetics does not require non-id evolutionary theory. In fact I would say that genetics argue against non-id evolutionary theory. Genetics is probably the field where the ID folks have their best arguments.

    ==You would have to ask them. I am just saying that they are all throughout the scientific community.
     
  6. billwald

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    it is a class problem

    Fundimentalist Christians and other fundimentalists will probably be the core and the leadership of the new blue collar/white collar working class. Their rank and file will be wage slaves and not in positions of power.
     
  7. Martin

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    ==I am not totally sure what that has to do with the OP "but" there are more than a few fundamentalist/evangelical Christians in places of "power". Some of us do have graduate degrees from accredited Universities, work for major Universities or companies, even the government.
     
  8. Not_hard_to_find

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    Please provide your source. Thanks!
     
  9. hillclimber1

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    The theory of evolution is an actual working theory, useful in making predictions as well as in explaining what we see in biology (why we test certain drugs on rats and pigs instead of spiders and sharks to predict how they will work on people). Creationist and ID don't have a theory, make no predictions and are not useful in research.
    __________________
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    bologna!
     
  10. The Galatian

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    It's true. There is no creationist theory. Honest creationists like Kurt Wise and Harold Coffin freely admit it.

    Evolutionary theory is accepted by scientists because it works. It makes useful predictions, which have been confirmed by subsequent discovery.

    It is the basis on which antibiotic protocols are developed, and is now being used to predict likely directions new resistance forms will take.
     

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