Featured Guns and the Church

For six years I pastored an inner city church in a neighborhood that was so dangerous that it was “off limits” to military personnel. An attempt to kill me was made twice that I know of, and for about six months I counseled a cold-blooded murder. Because of the multitude and severity of the crimes that he had committed, he refused to talk with me in public places in the church, and preferred to use a dimly lighted hallway that led to parts of the church that were not open to the congregation. He frequently got right into my face and could easily have killed me and gotten away with it had God permitted him to do so. My last conversation with this man was a conversation with a gloriously saved, born-again man of God who moved to another community hundreds of miles away to get a fresh start away from his gang. As Christians, we are to fear God, not men! As Christians, it is our responsibility to lead men to Christ—not to shoot them with a gun.

One of our Bible teachers was shot and killed, but only when he chose to position his body between an assailant’s gun and the body of an evangelist preaching in the pulpit—the assailant’s target. I knew our 70-year-old Bible teacher very well and I know for certain that had he had access to a gun, he would not have used it to take a human life. To my knowledge, none of our members ever packed a gun on the church grounds—or, for that matter, anywhere else. Had any of them done so, I would have been very disappointed and wondered why my sermons and Bible studies and been so ineffectual.

I currently live, by choice, in a gang-infested neighborhood where killings by guns and knives are a frequent occurrence, but I do not and will not pack a gun—even though I am frequently outside in the dark after midnight.

By the way—that inner city church that I pastored was kept open every night till midnight seven days a week, including all holidays, so that it would be open to the very worst of the worse when they were doing their thing where they did it. Even though I was the senior pastor with a staff of associate and assistant pastors, I chose to be there at the church and available to the public six nights a week till midnight, and then went to my office in the church and prayed till 2:00 a.m. I then walked home—alone! Our senior counselor often stayed at the church till after 2:00 in the morning because there were so many people needing help. God does not go to bed at midnight, and the Holy Spirit is always there to watch over us.

 

Being a veteran I still consider myself a guardian of the public (of all enemies both foreign and domestic).
Though I don't carry at the moment a retired police officer in our local church and I have discussed it positively.
We are both deacons. Romans 13:1-4.

As guardians of the congregation (both as deacons and protectors of the public) we will not stand idly by and allow heads to be chopped off or the innocent mowed down by lunatics

HankD

 

Thank you for sharing with us your perspective, but I believe that the perspective of Jesus is more Biblical.

Luke 12:4. “I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.
5. “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
6. “Are not five sparrows sold for two cents? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God.
7. “Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.” (NASB, 1995)

 

For two millennia, scholars of the Bible have expressed puzzlement concerning Luke 22:36. Why did Jesus say to his disciples, “And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.”? Part of the problem, of course, is that the Greek sentence underlying this translation found here from the RSV has been interpreted in four different ways with four different meanings.

In his commentary on the Greek text of the Gospel According to Luke, Joseph A. Fitzmyer writes, “The relation between these three parts of v. 36 is quite complicated.” On pages 1,431-1,432 of his commentary, Fitzmyer provides us with a detailed analysis of the syntax used in the Greek text of v. 36 and explains the basis of each of the four possible interpretations. However, none of these four interpretations justify the idea that Jesus was instructing His disciple to purchase a sword in the light of His impending arrest. Indeed, when Peter mistakenly attempted to use his sword to prevent the arrest, Jesus not only put a stop to it, but healed the victim’s ear.

But why purchase a sword? We certainly do not have any instances in the New Testament where a sword was used by any of Jesus’ disciples—or, for that matter, by any Christian for any purpose. Therefore, Luke 22:36 should never be used to justify purchasing and packing a gun when Jesus is not available to heal the gunshot victim!

By the way—is not allowing God to physically save us by using a boat or a helicopter very much different that allowing God to physically protect us from an assailant by our using a lethal weapon?

 

Pastor shot and killed at Ohio church during service.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/28/pastor-shot-at-ohio-church.html?intcmp=hplnws

 

This statement is absolutely untrue, and the analysis of the Greek syntax used in the sentence proves that it is untrue.

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the New Testament do we read that Jesus expects us to protect ourselves and our loved ones from harm through lethal force as part of “His watchcare over us.” Indeed, my cousin in Chattanooga Tennessee calls that “the devil’s hogwash!”

Luke 12:4. “I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.
5. “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
6. “Are not five sparrows sold for two cents? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God.
7. “Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.” (NASB, 1995)

 

v.38. So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said, "It is enough."'
So two swords between eleven people were enough. No case here for a Christian to have his own private armoury.

 

So you support a ratio of 2 armed men per every 11 people in the pews? I think you're finally coming around.

 

If I attended a church in Northern Nigeria or some parts of Pakistan, it might be advisable for the brethren to mount an armed guard outside the church during the services if (and only if) the police were not prepared to give protection. In a civilized society weapons owned by civilians are unnecessary and lead to bloodshed, whether accidental or purposeful. To carry guns inside a church is an appalling witness.

 

There is nothing true about this post

 

A patently naive opinion.

 

DAYTON, Ohio (AP/KDKA) – An Ohio pastor with deep roots in the Dayton community was shot and killed at his church,

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/02/28/ohio-pastor-shot-killed-during-sunday-service/

 

Blatantly dishonest tongue-in cheek posts like this make me nauseated and ashamed to tell people that I am a Baptist! Martin very clearly wrote from his heart, “To carry guns inside a church is an appalling witness,” and to willfully and deliberately misrepresent his words in jest, sick humor, or anything else is outrageous and unconscionable. Indeed, it is behavior like this that makes Christianity so extremely unpalatable to the very people who need to see Christ rather than the devil in the lives that we live. There is no precedent anywhere in the New Testament for carrying lethal weapons inside a place of worship, and when Christians do so, they bring shame upon the faith that they are to represent. I for one would much rather be shot to death in church than bring shame upon the faith that I represent.

 

Shame on you!