Half confession?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can someone tell me what David meant by this: Psalms 51:4
    (4) Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.

    That verse would make sense if he would have left "thee only" out...

    Because he didn't ONLY sin against God...

    But against Bathsheba, Uriah, his wife, and everyone else involved...

    Was this a half hearted confession...
    Maybe like David didn't want to confess he sinned against his fellow men and women...

    What am I missing?...

    We spent along time on this in Bible study tonight... talking about what it means to sin against man, and God... and why David thought he ONLY sinned against God.
     
  2. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is sin but the breaking of God's commandments.
    Though others were involved the issue of sin was against God Himself or better the fact that David purposely went against what He knew was Gods laws.

    Everything that followed were secondary in the sense 'when' they occured. So it is God who is first intentionally offended and it is God to whom we must give an account for all sin. So though David sinned against others the sin committed against them is still primarily against God. David is acknowledging that it is God alone with whom he must deal because sin is only a sin when one breaks the laws of God, which are standards illistrating His Holiness and Righteousness. David is not saying his sin didn't affect anyone else but that his sin (which is a violation of God's law) was against God in the first place and thus against God alone has he sinned.
     
    #2 Allan, Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2008
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see Psalm 51 as a confession of a sinful nature by David before God. He is not excluding his faults personally. It is suggested this psalm was written after a meeting with the prophet Nathan confronting David about his involvement with Bathsheba.

    In a very real sense, all our faults and sins are before God and against Him only. If we confess our faults before man, that does not absolve us from our sins before God. This we must do in His presence and to Him only.

    Compare this with 2 Sam 13, where Nathan first confronts David with his personal sin...And David says to Nathan, "I have sinned aainst the Lord..." Nathan says the Lord did forgive David and took away the penalty of death, but..there are consequences for his personal sin.....not to be confessed in Psalm 51..only his confession before God.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,073
    Likes Received:
    101
    Adam Clarke's explanation is that David, being king, was essentially above all authority by God and thus could be held accountable only to God; thus, it was against God that David sinned.

    (An alternative view, which Clarke rejects, is that the introductory matter is faulty and that the Psalm does not in fact deal with David's adultery with Bathsheba.)

    http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkepsa51.htm

    The NET solves the quandary by treating it as hyperbole, translating it as "you above all," not "only you." I do not think this is particularly satisfactory.
     
  5. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just my thoughts --- Ultimately, all sin is against God because sinning against another person is an assault on someone made in the image of God (I'm thinking of Gen 9 here and the death penalty being commanded for muder because all people are made in the image of God).

    Also, all sin is against God because He alone is sinless and righteous and is the one who determines what sin is.
     
  6. Steven2006

    Steven2006
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    IMHO I think that up to that point David had been internally fighting with his sin, and trying to diminish it somewhat. He had not only sinned, but as King abused his power and that led to even more sin. Someone used to such power, might try and tell himself that sure he had hurt some people that were under him, but that overall he was still a good and Godly man. Sometimes we can do that also by telling ourselves that we are really only hurting ourselves and not being "that bad". The bottom line is it appears that up to that moment David was not being honest with himself or God.

    Then in these verses David finally came to God with proper repentance. He now saw his sin as God saw it and truly acknowledged his sin was sin against God, and was expressing that. He was humbled repentant and praying for forgiveness. This is how we all should feel about our sin.
     
  7. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    The NET Bible gives a good explanation:

     
  8. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,617
    Likes Received:
    44
    Compare:
    Gen. 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's not give David any credit for realizing he sinned against God. David did not come to repentance on his own. He was confronted by the prophet Nathan in a powerful scene in 1 Sam 12. This is the last part of it; note what David says in verse. 13.

    7Nathan then said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'It is I who anointed you king over Israel and it is I who delivered you from the hand of Saul.

    8'I also gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!
    9'Why have you despised the word of the LORD by doing evil in His sight? You have struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword, have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the sons of Ammon.
    10'Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.'
    11"Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.
    12'Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.'"
    13Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD " And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. 14"However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
     
  10. jcjordan

    jcjordan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Watch Piper address this here
     
  11. Salamander

    Salamander
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    The verse shows his accountability to the Lord in his position as king.

    Hope it helps, but I already doubt it will be accepted.
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Sal... I hadn't thought of it that way...

    As "KING" he ONLY sinned against God.
    As a person he sinned against others...

    Is that what you are saying?>
     
  13. Salamander

    Salamander
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. The verse shows that even though David had certain rights as king, he would still answer to the Lord.

    It was viewed as if the king could not sin against anyone as doing anything wrong. Any accusation against him was punishable by death.

    Sort of gives some light on the issue of sinning against The King. We have NO accusation against the Lord and doing so is sin.

    We could get really deep into a discussion about his aspect.

    Any type of sin is against the Righteousness of God and is punishable by death. Thus the need for that Atoning Blood to wash away ALL evidences of sin!:godisgood: :godisgood: :godisgood:
     

Share This Page

Loading...