Hare! Hare!

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by A_Christian, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    Arabeth & Shaphan (according to Leviticus 11)
    are said to chew the cud. They were translated
    "hare" and "coney" by KJV. Hebrew scholars don't
    know what the words mean.

    Shaphan may have been a member of the pig family
    abunbant in the Near East 4000 years ago but
    now extinct. Fossil teeth suggest it may very
    well have chewed its cud.

    G.S. Cansdale has this to say:
    "Hares, like rabbits, are known to practice
    "reflection": at certain times of the day, when
    the hare is resting, it passes droppings of
    different texture, which it at once eats. Thus
    the hare appears to be chewing without taking
    fresh greens into its mouth. On its 1st passage
    through the gut, indigestable vegtable matter is
    acted on by bacteria and can be better assimilated
    the 2nd time through. Almost the same principle
    as chewing the cud
    ("Hare," in Tenny, Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia, 3:33).
     
  2. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    A lot of Biblical contradictions can be cleared up by redefining words.
     
  3. Meatros

    Meatros
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    Isn't redefining words, reinterpreting the bible? If you have to redefine the words in order to make it "fit", then aren't you by your own standards making the bible into whatever you want it to be?
     
  4. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
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    Members of the pig family don't chew their cud.
     
  5. mdkluge

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    I've never understood why this particular passage finds itself a battleground over inerrancy. Its meaning is frankly obscure. We don't know what animals are being referred to, nor do we know the limits of the connotations that "chewing the cud" had for the ancient Hebrews. Did it mean only literally the regurgitation practiced by bovines and some other animals? Or is the concept expanded to animals eating their own pellets? Or perhaps it included "cud-chewing motions". (My father used to ask me if that was what I was doing when I chomped on chewing gum.)

    I have no idea whether this passage of the Bible is errant or not. I don't see how one could tell . I think this battle has to be waged elsewhere.
     
  6. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    Paul of Eugene:

    Neither were ANY of your ancestors apes
    (at least they were not created as such).
     
  7. Meatros

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    You weren't talking to me, but I'm at a loss as to how this is relevant to what Paul posted:

     
  8. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    Meatos:

    He believes in E V O L U T I O N. You must
    learn to follow a train of thought to its
    ultimate conclusion.
     
  9. UTEOTW

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    What about you. Were/are your parents apes? Are you an ape?

    Are you a primate?

    Are you a placental mammal?

    Are you a tetrapod?

    Are you a craniate?

    Are you a chordate?

    Are you an animal?

    Are you an eukaryote?

    You don't have to answer all, just the "no"s and the first "yes" will suffice. I will ask you why you draw the line where you do if you want to get a jump on that question.
     
  10. Meatros

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    I still don't follow. Your thought process is bizarre; what does evolution have to do with this? All his message said was:
    How does that relate to E V O L U T I O N?

    Am I missing something?
     
  11. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    Meatos:

    He understands the Bible to be wrong (his view).
    I understand evolution to be wrong.

    I am a human and created in the image of GOD.
    I am not an animal and refuse to be labeled as
    such...
     
  12. Meatros

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    So you are supplying him with motive? If you take away evolution "poof" it no longer exists, does this then make pigs/rabbits/etc chew cud?

    If it doesn't then why bring up apes?

    You have made 'evolution' into an enemy to fight, if something is wrong or someone disagrees with *you* it's evolutions fault!

    Well that dog doesn't hunt.
     
  13. UTEOTW

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    I didn't think I could get you to play along. You know if you do, I suddenly have evidence you cannot deal with. You have backed yourself into a corner where you cannot draw a line any where. So now you have to deny even being an animal. :rolleyes: All the while you are all the things listed.

    I bet you did not know that most animals can manufacture their own vitamin C. You cannot. They do this through a process involving four different enzymes that are required for synthesizing ascorbic acid (vitamin C). In humans, there is a mutation at a specific point in the gene that codes for the L-gulono-gamma-lactone oxidase (GLO) enzyme. As it turns out, all primates lack the ability to produce vitamin C and all share a mutation at the same point in the gene that codes for GLO.

    Now, if all of these "kinds" were created separately, why would they share this mutation? But, if primates, including humans, share a common ancestor who had this mutation, the answer is easy.

    You are an ape, you are a primate,you are a mammal, and you are an animal. There is no doubt. We can go through the characterists you share with each of these if you wish. But I bet you find away to handwave it all away or ignore the evidence. I'm looking forward to why we share a specific mutation with all other primates. There's more where that came from. [​IMG]
     
  14. A_Christian

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    I am God breathed. Apes are not.
    I am created in God's image. Apes are not.
    I have the ability to magnify GOD. Apes can only
    reflect His creativity.
    Did you ever speak to an ape about salvation?
     
  15. Meatros

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    More Haikus? It would seem that pride is your reason for not accepting the obvious.
     
  16. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    And futility is yours-----buckey.
     
  17. UTEOTW

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    [​IMG]

    And Genesis records quite wonderfully this special relationship that God has with mankind, different than all the other animals. To be able to think. To praise God or to reject Him. To understand and appreciate the universe around us. To know good from evil.

    But you, my brother, are still an ape. Despite whatever protests you may make. If not, please tell me why you share with all other primates the specific mutation that prevents you from synthesizing vitamin C. It's all in the details.
     
  18. Helen

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    no me. I'm part guinea pig. They can't synthesize vitamin C either!

    Or maybe its a fruit eating bat, or red vented bulbul bird I'm related to -- I can't remember...

    and those are just some warm-blooded animals which cannot synthsize their own vitamin C.

    Yup, the devil is in the details...
     
  19. UTEOTW

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    By all means, do these other odd balls have the same mutations at the same location of the same gene as that shared by all primates?

    I don't know the answer, but I doubt it. That is the detail. So yes, the devil is in the details. If they do not have the same mutation then bringing up the others is just a distraction from the question.

    And if you look closely, I said most animals not all animals other than primates.

    Why, in a YEC view, would primates and humans share this particular mutation? It is not found in all animals and it causes problems if you do not get adequate vitamin C in your diet, so it does not sound like a good design that is coincidentally shared.
     
  20. A_Christian

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    Simple, that is just how GOD designed humans and
    primates. I suppose GOD wishes man to see an
    example of what he acts like to GOD when he (man) pretends to know everything and ignores the truth----or is it the mule?
     

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