1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Harry Potter

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ShotGunWillie, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    I must have missed that. Frankly, I could hardly stay awake through the first one. It was more like "Harry Potter Goes To School" than anything else. It was INCREDIBLY boring.
     
  2. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    So there is nothing wrong with reading books like "Romance Novels" and other books that contain sexually explict or moderately explict scences in them. Or Hustler and Playboy for that matter. It is ok to just read the articles and not particate in sexual deviences of it. After all it is just fiction that involves sex and is not the same thing as engaging in the practice, now is it?

    You understanding of Lord of the Rings is pour to say the LEAST. J.R.R. Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings as (in his hope) a mythology for Europe because through out its history conquest and being conquered it had lost it singular identity regarding it own mythology and became a hodge-podge of all. He DID NOT intend nor super-intend his work to be an alagory for biblical priniciples or otherwise. (you can find that in many of the older copies in the Prologe of the Fellowship of the Ring - 1st book). A book or movie can only be alagorical ONLY if it is written to be so, much like book of Narnia which WAS written to be alagorical.

    I should know somewhat about this, since it was these books (LOTR) that brought me and 67 other students (a club like group) at Okeechobee High School in Okeechobee, FL. to reading Dragon Lance books, Dungeon & Dragons, and even studying Wicca and Black. Some went Further afield and became practioners but the rest of us... well most have never come out. The majority of us were all part of the same Christian youth group and the rest of other youth groups but none of us would have considered ourselves (at the time) non-Christains or that we were specifically in the wrong.

    BTW- Do you know how many 'biblical' themes there are in Wiccan Craft?? It is one of the ways they draw people to it. Our golden rule (do unto others as you'd have them do unto you) is principle in Wicca lore and so forth. (there are as many as YOU WISH to see) I am well studied on Wiccan and so called Black, Necro, and many other beliefs, and I CAN tell you much of what Rolland places in her Harry Potter book IS part and partial to TRUE witch 'Craft', and not just the pentagrams. She did study about the stuff to make it more beleivable. The actors of the movies actually had to learn how to properly hold and use a wand among some other things.

    But no matter, God said it is evil (no matter HOW you want to sugur it up- fiction or not) and those who practiced it in the OT was to be Killed immediately. That put a huge damper on the reading it for fun would you not agree?

    Think about it: are you an adultous sinner because you had sex or because it was a thought you willingly had and it was in contradiction to the nature of God. So to is witchcraft even in 'fun, fairytale" form. The kids and adults alike read them, and begin associating themselves with the charactors, their lives, and WILL begin to indulge in the forbidden thoughts of, it would be neat if I could do that. As the place themselves into charactors who ARE doing it. They live the lives of the charactors.

    I know personally (I was one), and because I am the one to have to counsil these families and kids whos parents allow this sin to pervade their childrens minds. Then later when they find their children in fact ARE checking this stuff out for real behind their backs, they don't know what happened. It has NOTHING to do with a strong mind, and knowing reality. Magic IS A REALALITY! The battle sayeth the scripture "is for the mind". That means your mind can be easily swayed and we must guard against what we allow in.

    If you have commited the act in your heart (thought - wow, I'd like to do that) knowing that it is contrary to God and His will for you, then YOU HAVE committed THE ACT before God and are guilty of THAT sin would like to participate in.

    I'm surprized you would allow your kids to read something to destroys the very Soveriegnty of God and places all power in the hands of man. I can honestly say that I'm some what shocked.
     
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Huh? Earth to Allan, come in, Allan.

    Don't be surprized about my pour understanding of alagory. I gots no intelligentz for litrachure.
     
  4. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Sorry Npet, I am very passionate about THIS subject because I have to deal with the after math in so many families and broken teens. It took ME a while to pull myself together.

    There is a pastor here who states Harry Potter is a very biblcally based book and encourages the youth of that church to read them without fear.

    I JUST (this last tuesday) began a counsiling session with a boy and his father because he has grown from H.P. to many other books and games where magic is the key element, and theft has become his means of obtaining it if he must. They are members of this other church I just mentioned. And afterward the kid told his dad later that he wants/needs to get rid of them and asked his dad to help him. I am encouraging them to sit down together and search the scriptures to find truth this subject for himself (the kid) and make it his. It is only when it is HIS truth that he will abide by it, when his father is not over his shoulder. He wants to bring about 11 of his friends to talk with me and share with them what I shared/showed him.

    But it is your choice and as their father your decision. But please remember that they will do things in their mind according to those things you allow them to place there.
     
    #24 Allan, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2007
  5. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Though you try to be degrading, I am not offended. I have never spelled well when I type fast, and word checker is what I use much of the time (Especially in College :laugh: ). So, regardless - The points still remain. :thumbs:

    God bless.
     
  6. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    To simply talk of "witchcraft" is to miss the important distinction between mechanical and occult magic. The first exists in a scenario that operates within a hypothetical world where different laws of nature apply. The second is the sort of magic that operates within our world as it is and relies on the power of evil spirits to augment what is naturally possible. Both types can exist in fantasy literature, and often do so simultaneously. Instead of issuing heavy-handed proclamations about the universal evil of any use of "magic", why not first explain the difference between different uses of magic and then discuss how it's portrayed in a particular work? Teach young people discernment through thoughtful discussions instead of issuing prima facie condemnations.
     
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Because the FACT is there is no TRUE distinction.

    They both originate outside the Power and Will of God. - You are god
    They both display the inner ability of being able to all things yourself. - You are not subject to God.
    They both epitimize the concept of the more power you have, you can save yourself by your own power - You are your own savior.

    BTW - Hypotheticl relates to potental possibility of something, so your hypothetical regarding a world where different laws of nature apply, is an impossibility since it relates to fantasy and fairy-tales. Therefore it is NOT hypothetical. Magic with the natural realm is hypothetical in relation to that IT IS and if it is, WHAT can be done with it?

    Magic across the board is evil because of its origins, period.

    But hey, what do I know - I'm the village idiot :thumbs:
     
    #27 Allan, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2007
  8. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    5,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have a teen nephew who hates to read and has problems with reading comprehension, who suddenly got caught up in the HP books. He can't/won't read his Bible or school textbooks, (or any other books for that matter) but boy, he can't put down HP? Surprisingly, he doesn't seem to have trouble comprehending HP, either. Now he's delving into more dangerous territory that never interested him until now. He's also wearing goth styles and listening to music with evil, violent lyrics. All this started AFTER reading the HP books and watching the movies.

    Sorry, but I truly believe a satanic force is drawing him towards evil now that he's gotten into HP. I know of several other kids who have reading disabilities who have no trouble reading HP. It's scary. VERY scary.
     
  9. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neither of them make the practicer out to be God, for their is ample room in both realms for the existence of God, though clearly occult magic exists outside God's revealed will. Nor do either of them display an inner ability to be all things to one's self: in mechanical magic there are natural laws that must nonetheless be followed and in occult magic one is dependent on demonic sources of strength. As for saving yourself through your own power, clearly one is already better equipped to save one's self in physical situations if one is more powerful -- a mighty fighter can defeat a bear, while a cripple has no chance. Would you therefore condemn the warrior for not having to rely on God to the extent that the cripple does? Surely not, for with his blessing of strength comes a much greater responsibility to exercise it well, a difficult task which he must rely on God to be successful, just as the cripple would in order to escape the bear.

    I was using "hypothetical world" in the philosophical sense in which any conceivable world is a possible one -- the question of whether such a world is possible from our own is irrelevant to this. If you wish to maintain that it is sinful to consider other manners in which worlds could have been arranged [by God], then clearly you will disapprove of such thinking and therefore also of mechanical magic. Since I have no problem with considering such "What if..." scenarios and indeed view it as a crucial exercise in properly considering the way things truly are, I see no problem in considering the possibility that He created it so that one can fly on broomsticks.
     
  10. Gideon

    Gideon New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    You know, most Christians wouldn't read fiction in the 19th century because they connected make-believe to the Devil ("ye shall not surely die"... "if thou be the Son of God"...). Perhaps today's Christians should re-examine their attitude to fictional literature. Now once you add magic to fiction, I think you have an exceedingly dangerous mix.
     
  11. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    5,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Interesting point. I believe it was Paul who admonished us to think on what was TRUE, virtuous, of good report, praise, etc. (I'm paraphrasing here as I can't remember the reference.) Much of the fiction we have just doesn't do that. Actually, neither does the non-fiction, like the daily news!
     
  12. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Since I have actually studied Magic in both it's forms of so called "white and dark" and not read christian authors on it. I can say with absolute certainty you have no idea of what you are talking about. But I will leave it there.

    However, you view is based on relelivency with no absolutes so I can see where you are coming from, that is their view as well. Just watch out for those broom sticks. :BangHead:
     
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    This is exactly what I stated in Post #5 with a little additional info. :thumbs:
     
  14. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, very little of what I said above is based on reading Christian authors. I read a piece by either Tolkien or Lewis years ago on the subject in which the author used a different spelling for "magic", but that's about it. Instead, I prefer to use discernment in reasoning through issues to reach sensible, logical, and Biblical conclusions. I certainly do believe in God-ordained absolutes.

    Please don't hold back in criticizing what I said above -- I'd welcome the chance to discuss such issues with someone with personal experience in the field. Clearly our opinions differ here, but perhaps your critique from experience could help enlighten aspects I have not considered, and my response might point out logical errors which your convictions had previously hid. As long as we both remain civil and open to considering the other's position and revising our own, I see no reason not to continue. I know that I for one certainly will not take any criticism of my opinions personally, so feel free to fire away!
     
  15. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    I think you read a little more into my post than I intended.
    If I were to critisize your post it would have been much more that 2 short sentences. I was politely stating what you gave as "sensible and logical" were not derived from what is truly taught regarding the differing 'Crafts'.

    However, your view appears to be based on relevency according to what you posted and if based on relevency then there is no absolutes. If I misunderstood you then I appologize sincerely.
     
    #35 Allan, Jul 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2007
  16. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh: :laugh: You missed it.
     
  17. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh: :laugh: You missed it too!
     
  18. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh: :laugh: You missed it too!

    I combined both Henry Blake and Sherman Potter to show all of you the silliness of this Harry Potter thread.

    It has been done to death ever since the FIRST Harry Potter book/movie.

    Like alcohol: some will use it inspite of Scripture and see nothing wrong with it. Same as the witchcraft in HP.

    Endless debate, going nowhere, accomplishing nothing, and gendering strife. Yep! That my idea of edification of the saints!

    Sorry guys for my participation. I should take my own admonishment.:tear:
     
  19. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, I absolutely agree that my opinion was not derived from what is taught on such "crafts" -- it's based solely on my consideration of the role and use of imaginative "magic" in imaginative thought, literature, film, and any other such entirely fictional media.

    I'm glad you think my views so relevant, but perhaps you instead meant "relative"? In that case, I accept your apology for the misunderstanding, but thank you for the inadvertent compliment nonetheless!
     
  20. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    No, I ment what I said. It is close to the same thing though. Relitive doesn't matter what the thought of the day is, but relevency is determinded by what is construed as acceptable today. But the appoligy still applies.
     
Loading...