has anyone ever heard of Southern Baptist School for Biblical Studies in Jacksonville

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by cbailey, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. cbailey

    cbailey
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    I am looking to get opinions on the Southern Baptist School for Biblical Studies in Jacksonville, Fla. What is your experience with the school? I am a bivocational assoc pastor. and am looking for an affordable program that will sharpen my skills. I was interested in their D.Min program. ANy thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. Broadus

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    It was started a couple of decades ago by Charles Williams, a one-time administrator at Luther Rice Seminary, who had, according to my recollection, something of a falling out with LRS.

    Its web site ( http://www.southernbaptistschool.com/ ) is a bit sparse in information. The school is not accredited, at least not by a legitimate accrediting agency.

    Quite frankly, I would look elsewhere. I realize some Baptist pastors of rather large churches have received their DMin from SBSBS. That, in itself, does not necessarily give the school credibility. This is not to question the sincerity or motives of those associated with SBSBS.

    Why not look into Luther Rice Seminary ( www.lrs.edu ). It offers an accredited DMin that should accomplish what you want.

    Bill
     
  3. cbailey

    cbailey
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    I am bivocational and am also an educator. I am working on a doctorate in leadership, policy and law from a state university. I was looking for a distance learning school that was very flexible and very affordable so I can continue to pursue the doctorate from the state school as well. I looked at three schools:
    Trinity-too expensive
    Andersonville-looks good for a bivo. pastor
    Southern Baptist School-?
     
  4. Broadus

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    Is the "Trinity" Trinity Theological Seminary or Trinity Evangelical Divinity School?

    My recommendation remains Luther Rice. I don't find either Andersonville or Souther Baptist School of Biblical Studies (could they have come up with a longer name!?) to be credible institutions. But then, my opinion may be worth what you're paying for it.

    BTW, I did my DMin at LRS while a bivo pastor and a high school educator.

    Kindest regards,
    Bill
     
  5. cbailey

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    trinity theological seminary. the degree they offered me was the doctor of religious studies or drs degree which i have never heard of.
     
  6. UZThD

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  7. Broadus

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    UZThD asks the right question. Why do we think it honors God to obtain a degree in some field of religious study with less, often much less, rigor than is required by the world for their degrees?

    Bill
     
  8. cbailey

    cbailey
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    As I stated I am concurently working on a PhD in Leadership, policy and Law from a State University. I want a theological program that is flexible while I sweat it out through this PhD.
    I know several pastors with LRS, Andersonville, Southern Baptist School, etc, as well as pastors from the big SBC six seminaries. The experiences they have shared with me is that churches have never asked "is your degree accredited?", Is it from some pie in the sky school?". What search comittees, at least where I am from, do examine is the heart of the man of God (ideally). Most churches, again, at least in my area don't know or care about one school or the other, they dont really care (to some extent) whether the pastor has a GEd or PhD. This is just getting to be a pretentious, egotistical ministerial concern. Dont get me wrong, education is important but should be just that, an education and should not be the overrated focus point. I choose to look at Southern Baptist School or Andersonville because of their flexibility, tuition, conservative stance, etc, while I pursue the secular PhD. Most certainly there are many distance learning schools that would fit this model, however, I have a network of ministers, DOMS, and pastors who represent these schools in my area. I am not looking for kudos, career advancement in this-just some biblical/theological training for my personal benefit and development. Are there, possibly better schools out there? Its very probable. Will some ministers lookk down their noses at me because of the degree? Most assuredly. Will I benefit personally from learning? Definitely! That is my focus. I appreciate the comments you all have shared.
     
  9. UZThD

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    It IS good to do a doctoral degree for personal benefit and development. Good for you!

    I did that. I did it for about $2500 at an accredited South African school- entirely by distance learning. They also offer ThDs in Pastoral Theology!

    I know you are doing it for God too. Why do you think God would want you to give less of yourself-- ie, by Andersonville requiring less of you-- to earn this advanced degree? That doesn't much sound like God , the One who gives so much of Himself and asks us to do likewise.

    Of course you do not need a DMin to serve God. But if you are going to get one, then why not really earn it by doing what is normally required to get that degree?

    There's nothing wrong in studying at Andersonville except, IMO, it seems that one gets a degree for doing and learning less than what normally is expected. That IMO borders on misrepresentation--whether a church board understands it or not!

    So, please, for yourself and for God, compare the entrance requirements, the academic qualifications of the faculty, and the rigor of the D Min program between any RA or any ATS or any TRACS accredited school and that of Andersonville.

    If your object is really to learn, a wonderful purpose BTW, and you're really convinced you'd learn a lot in the very substandard DMin from Andersonville, then perhaps you'd be best advised to consider a lower , accredited, MDiv program--you'd likely learn much more there than in the Andersonville DMin.
     
  10. steveo

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    This is kind of like telling people they better get a degree from Harvard and not one at a Community college. Are we becoming that much like the business world??
    Some can't afford the more expensive schools and maybe they don't want to go there just because everybody else did.
    I know of ministers with just biblical diplomas that are doing great in ministry and ones that have degrees from big seminaries that have dropped out. Go figure.
    Steve
     
  11. Dave G.

    Dave G.
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    $2,500 over three years for an earned university doctorate is too expensive?
     
  12. Broadus

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    Cbailey,

    UZThD raised the issue about doing an accredited MDiv. Have you already earned your MDiv? Will Andersonville (or anyone else) allow you into the DMin program with a non-religious master's as a prerequisite?

    You're right about churches not knowing the difference between accredited and non-accredited degrees. I consider that an evidence of a misplaced emphasis upon piety and a de-emphasis upon training. When I speak of training, I'm not talking about degrees on the wall (I have paintings and prints on my walls; the diplomas are in a file cabinet, but to each his own). I'm talking about preparation, whether it be formally through an institution or informally through being personally mentored.

    I, too, know pastors who have non-accredited masters and doctorates from places that have substandard programs. The question I have is, Why get the degree for substandard work? If one claims that he's only after Bible training, then good. That is applaudable. Then get training that awards the appropriate diploma, if formal training is what one desires. Getting a PhD, ThD, or even a DMin for work that doesn't rise above college-level work is a misrepresentation of attainment.

    In your situation, already pursuing an RA doctorate, I really wouldn't recommend doing another degree at the same time. I have a PhD, so I know what kind of effort and focus is required. I recommend that you focus on your present degree as you continue your work as an educator and bivo pastor. If you want some really good training that is flexible and fulfilling that you can work at while pursuing your , I recommend that you look into the Founders Study Center ( http://study.founders.org ). The material is excellent and edifying.

    May God bless your efforts and direct your steps.

    Bill
     
  13. Broadus

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    I disagree with your analogy. Nobody claims the community college degree is less than legitimate. The issue is mispresentation. Many theological institutions require substandard work for a certain degree. Work that is little more than that required by a Bible institute for a diploma in Christian studies gets inflated to a doctorate.

    You ask: "Are we becoming that much like the business world?" The problem is that we are becoming less than the "business" or "secular" world in our ethics. It's a shame when the children of darkness outshine the children of light.

    Again, the issue is not about affording "the more expensive schools". Forgive me if I bristle at that statement. I've seen several middle-aged men leave successful places of employment and even successful (by any standard) pastorates to go to seminary to obtain the training they believed would aid in leading God's church. I'm not saying this is for everyone. They struggled to provide for their families, pay their tuition, and work other jobs. When they graduate, they find themselves well-trained but starting all over financially. I can assure you, it would have been a whole lot easier to get their degrees from places that the secular world would deem as little more than diploma mills.


    Again, the issue is not whether ministers have "just biblical diplomas" or whether they "have degrees from big seminaries." The issue is whether one does work that is required for a Bible diploma and is awarded a doctorate for the effort. If one has a Bible diploma and knows the Word and has a heart for God, then well and good. Just don't misrepresent the training by calling it a doctorate. And don't denigrate those who put in the time, effort, and sacrifice to receive a legitimate degree, whether residential or distance education.

    Bill
     
  14. cbailey

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    Hey,

    Give me some more information on this Theological School in Africa. It sounds like it is worth looking into.
     
  15. steveo

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    I disagree with your analogy. Nobody claims the community college degree is less than legitimate. The issue is mispresentation. Many theological institutions require substandard work for a certain degree. Work that is little more than that required by a Bible institute for a diploma in Christian studies gets inflated to a doctorate.
    I agree degrees shouldn't be given away, but who decides on how much work or what kind of work is legite? Its easy to say it should be like the work you had to do. What if someone else said your work wasn't as hard as the work they had to do. What about work done at a seminary 30 years ago? If it was harder or easier should they have to go all over again?

    You ask: "Are we becoming that much like the business world?" The problem is that we are becoming less than the "business" or "secular" world in our ethics. It's a shame when the children of darkness outshine the children of light.

    Outshine according to what? The worlds standards (psycholgy courses,math, etc..)


    Again, the issue is not about affording "the more expensive schools". Forgive me if I bristle at that statement. I've seen several middle-aged men leave successful places of employment and even successful (by any standard) pastorates to go to seminary to obtain the training they believed would aid in leading God's church. I'm not saying this is for everyone. They struggled to provide for their families, pay their tuition, and work other jobs. When they graduate, they find themselves well-trained but starting all over financially. I can assure you, it would have been a whole lot easier to get their degrees from places that the secular world would deem as little more than diploma mills.

    Many go to seminaries because its the thing to do, and many will talk you into it, not because God is calling them to go there.

    Again, the issue is not whether ministers have "just biblical diplomas" or whether they "have degrees from big seminaries." The issue is whether one does work that is required for a Bible diploma and is awarded a doctorate for the effort. If one has a Bible diploma and knows the Word and has a heart for God, then well and good. Just don't misrepresent the training by calling it a doctorate. And don't denigrate those who put in the time, effort, and sacrifice to receive a legitimate degree, whether residential or distance education.

    I'm not denigrating ones who have their doctorates but its funny how one can have a business degree and go straight into a masters at seminary when the bachelors had nothing to do with the bible. I would rather have a pastor with 4 years bible than someone with a masters with really has 2 years bible.


    Bill [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]
     
  16. steveo

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    Sorry about the above.
    I sent it without seperating me reply.
    Steve
     
  17. UZThD

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  18. Broadus

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    UZThD would be the one to do that. He has completed the requirements of a ThD and will be awarded the degree this May.

    Bill
     
  19. steveo

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    So, to be a good school or considered legite you have to be accredited?
     
  20. UZThD

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    ===


    Bless your heart--I knew your heart was for God. OK, listen up:

    There are several ACCREDITED public universities AND seminaries in South Africa where grad degrees in several areas of religious training can be done VERY inexpensively and ENTIRELY by distance education. These schools are the equivalent of "regional" accreditation in the USA.

    An example of a seminary offering such docs (in April I think, but enrolling now) is South African Theological Seminary. Please see on this forum "A Song at SATS."

    An example of a public university is "my" own Unizul where my dissertation (they say thesis) is in Christology. My research took about three years and I already had finished work for the MA, MDiv, ThM in two regional/ATS accredited schools.

    Get on those websites and view what they offer. Likely you will have to do some coursework unless you already have a master's degree in a related area of your doc research.

    If I can give more info please ask. But IMO two docs at once is too challenging [tho I once was doing it] UNLESS the areas of research are cognate.

    Blessings,

    Bill G.
     

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