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Discussion in 'Books / Publications Forum' started by Daniel David, Jan 31, 2003.
I am reading this right now. It is excellent (as are all works by Piper).
I haven't read it, but I like what the title seems to convey. Can you tell us more about it?
The ministry is quickly becoming a professional job. It isn't. The pastor is not a CEO (Chief Executive Officer for any Raider fans ). I am really getting alot from it now.
About how much would we expect to pay for it?
11.99 at CBD
I received a free copy of it from Lifeway Christian Stores just for completing an e-mail survey that they sent to me! Unfortunately, I received it right at the beginning of the current semester and with all of the assigned reading I have not had time to read it. I'll get to later this spring.
Looked at a copy today at a local bookstore. Looks like an interesting read, but I left it there since they had it priced at $14.99. I'll hope to find a cheaper copy.
If one cannot afford the cost of this book you can work it out with Desiring God Ministries to receive it for free. I've read the book,it is excellent,as all of Piper's books are,but this one really stands out as a challenge and a rebuke!
Still working through it . . . .
I'm one of those geeky layman types who loves to read this type of stuff too.
I would recommend this book to all of the laity. Piper's plea to pastors can only go so far. Those in the pew have a responsibility to avoid placing the type of demands on pastors that tempt a pastor to move in the direction of the CEO.
"Imagine what a church could accomplish if not for members."
We are NOT Professionals
I just finished Piper's book and it's excellent. It deserves more than one reading and, since it's a philosophy of ministry, it would probably be most effective if everyone in the church who is in a leadership role, or aspires to be so, become familiar with it.
In my former church, the philosophy of ministry was getting people saved. A steady diet of the plan of salvation followed by application messages to live an abundant Christian life. And there was a huge response, but people were going out the back door about as fast as they were coming in the front. Our senior pastor revisited the scriptures regarding the operation of the early church and saw an emphasis on discipleship that was a lot stronger than what our church was practicing, so he went to the elders and said he felt we should make a course correction, abandon some of the Willow Creek emphases, and become more of a discipleship church.
And the elders said 'no.' That to say this: everyone in leadership must at least be speaking the same language, must understand what the others are saying and why they are saying it.
By God's grace, I will start a home study group centered on Piper's book. The church-as-a-business model is a stellar success if success is measured in worship band decibels, building programs, and community visibility. But it's a failure when you consider pastoral burn-out and the real spiritual impact of almost all churches on the communities they serve.
I wonder why Piper has to say about "Rick Warren" philosophy and methodology.
Piper and Warren
Hi, Alex --
Warren's name never came up. Purpose-Driven Church was originally published in 1995 but was re-published in 2002 and that's about the time it really started to get traction in the Christian marketplace. I first heard of it in 2003. Piper published in 2002.
Warren's is a business model transparently modelled after the business ideas of Peter Drucker, so there isn't much doubt in my mind on what Piper thinks.
Well, maybe the pendulum will swing the other way. People, even God's people, are so easily duped. Dr. this and Dr. that and Mister this and Brother that all want to be the smartest guy in the room with the newest insight, all to the damage of the souls of believers. Gimmick this and Gimmick that.
While I don't accept Reformed Theology, I certainly accept Piper's Ecclesiology in this area.
Piper is the senior pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis. Does that make him Reformed? Or were you referring to one of his other books?
Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is the Piper is a Reformed Baptist.
Here is an article from his church describing themselves and himself as such:
Bethlehem Baptist Church Article
And from the article about their position that hold to the 5 points of Calvinism here is a quote:
So since the church itself describes itself as "Reformed" and Piper is the Pastor and clearly supports this and does not contend with this, then I consider his Reformed by all good reason.
I read this book and I'm a layman. I highly recommend it to all pastors.
I've got it on my desk in my "Read ASAP" pile...hopefully before the year is up i will get that done.
Moved it up in the pile and i'm reading it now. I like how it is laid out in daily readings; i've been reading it during my personal Bible study time.
Brothers, We Are Not Professionals is one of the best pastoral ministry books I have read. I rate it as highly as my other top picks: Spurgeon's Lectures to my Students, Baxter's Reformed Pastor, and Lloyd-Jones' Preaching and Preachers.
You can read parts of BWANP here: