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Has God fore-ordained everything that comes to pass?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by 2BHizown, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    2BHizown,

    You are right on! Amen!

    His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:3-4)

    Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies (Romans 8:33)

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

    He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

    also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will

    Hey King James Bond....did you post; "having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will"?

    Yes I did! He works ALL things after the council of His will!

    KJB
     
  2. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    AMEN KJB! [​IMG] Soli deo gloria!
    Our God reigns!! I am so thankful its not up to me!! What a hazard that would be! The wonder of His grace is so far superior to any choice I would be able to make!!
     
  3. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000 Guest

    Well Cass, since those verses refer to WISDOM, and that by wisdom men reign, your point is a blank.

    As to the rest, apparently you don't understand DELEGATED AUTHORITY. It does not mean the delegate now has greater,or even equal authority to the one who gave it, it simply acknowledges the fact that authority has been given. Adam had authority over all the earth, and he gave it to the devil. The devil walks in Adam's authority. He is called a "god" and a "prince" by our Lord more than once. John reveals that Satan gives his authority and his "seat"to the beast! Now what is that??? And why is our Lord called the Second, or last Adam. His undid, as a man, what Adam did. Ands now He waits until His enemies are made His footstool. Until then, the devil is ruling this world, although God did institute things that still show His governent and handiwork. The earth IS THE LORD'S, it has just been temporarily given over to His enemy until the Lord returns. Revelation says that the kingdoms of this world will BECOME the Kingdom of our Lord, so it is obvious they are not now HIs per say.
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Oh, but I do! God is Sovereign. And, in His Sovereignty, he has allowed others to do some things that He has not done, but He, in His Sovereignty, allowed those things. That's why I keep telling you people to do some study into God’s Decretive Will, God’s Preceptive Will, and God’s Permissive Will. Once you come to understand those issues you will no longer be confused over just Who is in charge of God's Creation. [​IMG]
     
  5. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    TCassidy,

    You said;

    I say;

    AMEN!

    KJB
     
  6. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000 Guest

    There is no confusion. We simply reject those Calvinistic distinctions and choose the Bible instead. What I posted is Scriptural.
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, you are confused. First you are confused regarding the Sovereignty of God. Secondly you are confused regarding God’s Decretive Will, God’s Preceptive Will, and God’s Permissive Will. Those are not Calvinistic distinctions, they are Theological distinctions. Anybody who has ever studied Theology has studied them and understands them. The fact that you don't say a lot about the basis of your confusion.
     
  8. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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  9. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    Fundementalist, jarhed,

    1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
    ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

    2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
    ( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

    3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
    ( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

    4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
    ( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

    5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
    ( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

    6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
    ( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )

    7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
    ( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )

    http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689bc.html

    Please digest this and I hope you love it!

    KJB
     
  10. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

    also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will.

    KJB
     
  11. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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  12. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    Well, dont you hate it when your imperfections surface for all to see? Pardon the "slight flaw" with the above post and give credit to God for saving His own, just overlook me!

    Also give credit to the great posts shared with all of us by KJB!! His thoughts are most appreciated!! [​IMG]
     
  13. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000 Guest

    Just so you know Cass, I answered what you said, but it is not here. I will not do so again. My time is being wasted by partiality.
    _____________

    Moderator's note: The removed posts are in accordance with the policy stated at the top of the forum. Hansola knows why he is being deleted. His posts are not removed because of their theology, but because of their demeanor. As soon as he chooses to participate in a manner in keeping with Christian decorum and civil conversation, his posts will be allowed to stand.

    [ November 05, 2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  14. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi 2BHizown;
    I don't believe you know where Calvinism came from. It came from a collection of books called the "Institutes of Christianity" and John Calvin wrote them not Beza or any of His successors. This only after his studies of Augustine's writtings. Augustine being the author of these ideas. What Augustine wrote is what Constantine used to create the Catholic Church in 325 A.D. The tulip may have come from Beza after, Calvin's death ,I'm not sure.
    As Far as Calvinism comming from the Bible that is yet to be proven.
    In The Light Of Christ;
    Mike
     
  15. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    T cassidy;
    Okay just where in the Bible do we study these. Please by all means bring some scripture to the table.
    In The Light Of Christ;
    Mike
     
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    We already posted the scriptures proving the Sovereignty of God.
     
  17. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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  18. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000 Guest

    There are no Scriptures on the "sovereignty of God". And yes I DO know why my posts are being deleted--becasue they are effectively refuting Calvinism, and we just can't have that, can we?
     
  19. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    HanSola2000,

    There are no Scriptures on the sovereignty of God? Hummm strange proclamation there.

    I am a Calvinist and my posts have been deleted also!

    Sometimes I don't recall who i was responding to last or who responded to me.

    Have you honestly read through all of John Calvins work?

    You claimed he was a murderer.....may I ask if when you read things by Paul or David do you reject such writings because these men were also sinful men?

    KJB
     
  20. King James Bond

    King James Bond New Member

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    2BHizown,

    From the Belgic Confession;

    14. Of the Creation and Fall of man, and his Incapacity to perform what is truly good

    We believe that God created man out of the dust of the earth, and made and formed him after his own image and likeness, good, righteous, and holy, capable in all things to will, agreeably to the will of God. But being in honour, he understood it not, neither knew his excellency, but willfully subjected himself to sin, and consequently to death, and the curse, giving ear to the words of the devil. For the commandment of life, which he had received, he transgressed; and by sin separated himself from God, who was his true life, having corrupted his whole nature; whereby he made himself liable to corporal and spiritual death. And being thus become wicked, perverse, and corrupt in all his ways, he has lost all his excellent gifts, which he had received from God, and only retained a few remains thereof, which, however, are sufficient to leave man without excuse; for all the light which is in us is changed into darkness, as the Scriptures teach us, saying: The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not: where St. John calls men darkness. Therefore we reject all that is taught repugnant to this, concerning the free will of man, since man is but a slave to sin, and has nothing of himself, unless it is given from heaven. For who may presume to boast, that he of himself can do any good, since Christ says, No man can come to me, except the Father, which hath sent me, draw him? Who will glory in his own will, who understands, that to be carnally minded is enmity against God? Who can speak of his knowledge, since the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God? In short, who dare suggest any thought, since he knows that we are not sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves, but that our sufficiency is of God? And therefore what the apostle says ought justly to be held sure and firm, that God worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. For there is no will nor understanding, conformable to the divine will and understanding, but that Christ has wrought in man; which he teaches us, when he says, Without me ye can do nothing.

    God bless,

    KJB
     
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