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Featured Has Prophecy Really Ceased ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by tomana, Nov 19, 2012.

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  1. TadQueasy

    TadQueasy Member

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    But does it not have to speak to all of Scripture, if you are going to use it as a text to say all prophecy has ceased? Otherwise, the text again seems to only point to prophecy in Revelation. The prophecy of Revelation should not be added to...
     
    #21 TadQueasy, Nov 22, 2012
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Note what I edited in in my last post:

    I mean prophecy in Revelation as foretelling prophecy, not forthtelling prophecy. In Charismatic circles, foretelling prophecy is the ruling brand, and I think Rev. 22 forbids that.
     
    #22 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2012
  3. TadQueasy

    TadQueasy Member

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    Ok thanks. Then in your understanding, foretelling prophecy has ceased, but forthtelling prophecy is still happening?
     
    #23 TadQueasy, Nov 22, 2012
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It depends on how you define forthtelling prophecy. Charismatics often will give revelation when they do forthtelling prophecy, in the sense of specific information from God. If by forthtelling prophecy you mean what the Charismatics do, I see that almost invariably (in what I've seen and heard) as adding revelation.

    If you see forthtelling prophecy as simply telling and warning others what God has revealed in His Word (a defintion that John R. Rice used), then I'm for it.
     
    #24 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2012
  5. TadQueasy

    TadQueasy Member

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    Thanks John, you have helped confirm in my mind the whole understanding of prophecy and whether it has ceased or not is a muddled mess and is not as cut and dry and some would have you to believe.
     
    #25 TadQueasy, Nov 22, 2012
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You're welcome.

    The Charismatics changed the whole dialogue about prophecy that existed until the 1960s. Even the original Pentecostals didn't go nearly as far as the Charismatics do in this respect.
     
    #26 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2012
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Tad, here's a scripture verse to chew on:
    I Corinthians 13:8
    All of these are spiritual gifts, and Paul clearly is saying they will end at some point (when that which is perfect is come).

    We may disagree on when that end is, and what the "perfect" is and when it will come.

    I believe the case can be made for the "perfect" being the closing of the canon.
     
    #27 Tom Butler, Nov 22, 2012
  8. TadQueasy

    TadQueasy Member

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    What in that context would lead you to believe that the perfect being the closing of the canon? That seems like a stretch.
     
    #28 TadQueasy, Nov 22, 2012
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The Apostles and they alone were promised by Jesus to be guided into ALL TRUTH
    They were with signs and wonders confirming their word 2 cor12:12.
    They were given all we need as pertains to life and Godliness.
    This faith was "once for all time "delivered to the saints.

    The apostle john would write,
    he identifies that those who are of God hear the apostolic word, those who do not are in error. The us is the apostles....


    Jesus ordained them for this purpose, and promised to bring all things to their remembrance,
    25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, [B]and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[/B]
     
    #29 Iconoclast, Nov 23, 2012
  10. TadQueasy

    TadQueasy Member

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    Thanks for the verses Icono, I will take some time to work through these. I appreciate it.
     
    #30 TadQueasy, Nov 23, 2012
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    actually, the NT prophets function SAME way as the OT ones did, as they inspired by god to give forth words from god into the situation, check Acts where the word says the Spirit spoke regarding paul/Barnabus being set apart, that there would be a coming famine etc///

    The prophesy in the local church was the Spirit encouraging/ministering /exhortingamong the saints, but that was NOT as NT prophets, as there HAD to be guidelines to discern that which was the Spirit speaking thru someone, and their own flesh/mind!

    NO NT prophets today in sense of revelation coming from God, and no more need to jave local prophesy for the church, as we have the full scriptures complete to us, those are the revelation of God for today!
     
    #31 Yeshua1, Nov 23, 2012
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    acts4
    acts5
    acts14
     
    #32 Iconoclast, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2012
  13. tomana

    tomana Member

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    Tad,

    1 Cor 13:9-10
    For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect [teleios] comes, the partial will pass away.

    the KJV translators used a phrase "that which is perfect" to best translate the single Greek word "teleios"

    teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
    Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
    Part of Speech: Adjective
    Transliteration: teleios
    Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
    Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
    Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

    the word "teleios" is a gender neutral word and, when compared to the definitions posted above, it ought to be clear that "teleios" is not referring to Jesus Christ.

    1 Cor 13:8-10

    those are gifts of the Spirit that were in operation when the Church still did nto have what we call the New Testament and so, the New Testament was brought to the churches via the apostles, their letters (epistles), prophets and teachers.

    This could mean no one church had all of the prophesies (New Testament teachings) yet. The word in the Greek that was translated "part" is "meros" and it means "a division or share".

    The only thing I can think of that was in part but is now whole, complete (contains all the shares, all the divisions) is the closed Canon we call the holy bible. Since it was completed (closed) no one has added anything to it's pages. The apocrypha was added to the KJV but llater removed.


    regarding the Apocrypha:

    Pentecostals, Charismatics, etc have been teaching that "when that which is perfect is come" is referring to the second coming of Jesus Christ (because they think it makes them correct to believe the gifts have been given back to the Church of our day) but teaching such a thing is what is considered to be serious error since it is not difficult to do the study of the word "teleios". To reject the truth once it is know (in this case, that "teleios" is not referring to Jesus Christ) and then to keep teaching the error (teaching others that "when that which is perfect is come" is referring to the second coming of Jesus Christ) is what is called heresy. Dangerous stuff, for Jesus said just a pinch of yeast (leaven) will spread throughout the whole lump of dough.

    Speaking of Matthew 16:11, did you ever stop to realize Jesus calls us Dough Brains :laugh:
     
    #33 tomana, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2012
  14. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Prophecy edifies, exhorts and comforts; helps us build up or strengthen; and should lead us to the Word of God. It is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin, of righteousness, and of judgement.

    It is divinely inspired..a supernatural proclamation in a known language. It is not of intellect..it is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

    Prophecy is forthtelling!!
     
    #34 awaken, Nov 24, 2012
  15. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Prophecy is still here...and it does not add or take away from the Word of God!
     
    #35 awaken, Nov 24, 2012
  16. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    Are you a prophet?
     
    #36 thomas15, Nov 24, 2012
  17. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    NO! Don't confuse the gift of prophecy with the office of the prophet.
     
    #37 awaken, Nov 24, 2012
  18. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the gift of prophecy?
     
    #38 thomas15, Nov 24, 2012
  19. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Yes I am, and as a demonstration of my power, I predict in post #38 you will ask someone if they have the gift of prophecy.
     
    #39 saturneptune, Nov 25, 2012
  20. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Yes I do, I predict this time next week, you will be a resident of Pennsylvania. In addition to prophecy, I am an administrator, encourager, teacher, pastor, deacon, bishop and pot luck organizer. I also sing and dance. Oh, I almost forgot. My most prominant fruit of the Spirit is being humble.
     
    #40 saturneptune, Nov 25, 2012
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