has the Christian Church Redefined Hell and Homosexuality?

FAL, you have used the phrase "walking in darkness" improperly in your rebutal by associating it with "practicing sin".

"Practicing sin" is a participle form while the form "walk in darkness" is a present indicative.

The participle indicates a continual state or even a state of being especially a past participle while the present indicative indicates (but doesn't necessarily gaurantee) non-continuity. It simply states the present condition.​

To "walk (present indicative) in darkness" is different than "walking (participle) in darkness".​

The one (present tense) can be slipped into by a Christian.​

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:​

Example, if someone claims to have fellowship with God (professes to know God on an intimate level) yet (for example) has unfounded and/or unresolved issues with a brother/sister at church then that person could very well qualify as one who "walks in darkness" because we are told to "love one another".

By letting the situation go unresolved we lie when we say we have fellowship with God because we are not obedient to Christ who gave this as His very own commandment.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye havelove one to another.​

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.​

It just might mean that they are "walking in darkness" and perhaps not saved but that is not what the scripture says literally. It simply states that we are in darkness and does not address the issue of being a continuing or temporary act.

It is even more clear in 1 John 2:11

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.​

It is used of someone who apparently was not blind but becomes blind "because that darkness hath blinded his eyes". They entered into the darkness and became blind.

This situation (hateth his brother) needs to be acknowledged and made right:

Though this passage is cast in an OT venue it has direct application today:

Matthew 5

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.​

1 Corinthians 8

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.​

HankD​

 

Like I said no child of God can walk in darkness as doing such is a practice. 1John 3:9
We are those who in practice are being led by the Spirit and to lead someone means someone is following. We may trip while following, but we get up and continue on in the following. True believers do not stop folowing to walk in darkness. The Spirit is leading and we are following. Romans 8. No child of God can walk in the darkness as we have the light of lights in us and we hear His voice and not that of another.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

Yes we are led of the Spirit but we can wander from His leading of loving and forgiving one another and grieve Him.

Ephesians 4

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.​

But, and if, we do temporaily wander off into the darkness He will come for us. He will not leave us on our own.

KJV Matthew 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?​

HankD​

 

The passage in EPH is not one person walking in all that. The person is stumbling to that from time to time and they are told to put it out all together.
The Matt Passage is speaking of the lost not the saved. Read verse 11.For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. Then he explains it in verse 12 why He has come.
And no a Christian never walks in darkness. We may stumble, but we get up and continue on. If you stumble walking to the store you do not get up and purposely stumble again and again and again. Those who practice sin stumble on purpose. No you get up and seek to continue to walk to the store. The same with our walk with the Lord.
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

The story of prodigal son has nothing what so ever to do with a saved person.
If you look at the story carefully you will see the father says;
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

While a Christian can sin we do not practice sin. From time to time we may stumble as we walk along following the Lord, but we get back up and begin our walk (following) again. It is no different then in life. If you are walking some place following another person and you stumble you get up and start again. The only break in the walk is the stumble.
No one who is going someplace stumbles on purpose and gets up and stumbles again on purpose and again and again and again until they are no longer following who was leading. That is what you are proposing and the bible says it cannot happen.
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

I understand that there is a world of difference in the matter of sin between the children of God and the children of the evil one.
And yes it is characterized by light and darkness.

In another metaphor:
Jesus said "I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it".

"Not prevail", there will be war but Jesus our Lord will triumph.

War is spawned out of envy and hatred.

James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight andwar, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.​

This is not a mere walk to the store but a walk which ends in the presence of God Himself.

It is darkness to sin even one sin.

There is only one who is pure light.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.​

But FAL,we may not ALWAYS seek Him, But He does want us to be healthy and well fed.

John 21
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of

Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.​

Here is a rhetorical question Who is more forgiving? Jesus or us?

Here is what He wants from us:

Matthew 18

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.​

Rhetorical answer:
So if we forgive our brother 490 times a day how much more forgiving is God torward us?​

In reality, you are for the most part, right - His light will always find our darkness and dispell it.​

1 John 2
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.​

The metaphor of light and darkness?

Love and Hate (see verses 10 and 11 above) of one's brother.

So, if a christian is capable of hate then he/she enters the darkness when they harbor that hatred against another.

HankD

 

No Christian can enter into darkness or walk in darkness. A Christian can do a deed of darkness but it is done in full light. No Christian can walk in darkness as that implies blindness. While we may stumble and sin we do not continue to seek after the stumbling. That does not mean we cannot do the same sin over and over, but that what we are seeking all the while is to be loosed from the stumbling of that sin. We may have to confess it and turn from it a thousand times or more, but the proof we are His is that we are always turning from it.
There is no such thing as a believer who is practicing sin.

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1741657&highlight=practicing#post1741657
Post #47

 

I am on the same page. The "offensive" thing is the "in your face" forced acceptance militancy that I find problematic. The morality of homosexuality is the job of God to judge. IMO, the pernicious "shaking of the fist" toward God and all things smacking of moral absolutes is what "offends" me. I have respect for someone who "struggles" with homosexual temptations and yet wishes to lead a morally upright life.

 

Actually those words "practicing sin" do not appear in the scripture.

The phrase is "commits sin" or "commiteth sin".

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.​

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.​

Translators will sometimes make a note such as "practices sin" or "habitually sins" or something similar.​

It is because a present participle is used rather than the present indicative and indicates that the person who "commits" sin is sinning continuously whether they have a "moral" walk of life or not.​

They are at very least in a continual rejection of God and His Son Jesus Christ.​

Even cultist who are "moral" are grievous sinners because they have rejected Christ and most can not say that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh and therefore are antichrists.​

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.​

HankD​

 

Yes, in addition I believe it is possible for a christian to enter into this state. However they can't stay there but as you say must change course or God will permentally change the course.

i.e. Someone I know was stopped by a state trooper here in WA.

They had en expired driver's license.

The officer told her "you cannot drive in the State of WA without a valid driver's license.

That didn't mean that she did not have the ability to do so but that there was a dire consequence for doing so.

Thus for the believer it is eventual physical death to enter into a situation of "commiting sin".

e.g.

Revelation 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.​

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

HankD​

 

David was King of Israel, God showed him mercy and spared him his life but there was violence at his doorstep for the rest of his days among other tragedies.

He didn't come away from it with ease.

A lesson for us.

2 Samuel 12

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.
13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

HankD​

 

Yes, I understood that JF.

In addition, I wanted to illustrate what can happen when we are chastised by the Lord. He won't let us "get away with it", of course those who apear to get away with it are probably "illegitimate children and not true sons" Hebrews 12:8.

HankD