has the concept of radical conversion been lost?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. nodak

    nodak
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    We went to an "event" at a local church last night. (Not our church.)

    Lots of good music. Some preaching.

    At the end the pastor just wanted us all to leave "knowing Jesus loves you".

    All good, for sure.

    But we left wondering whatever happened to a call for radical conversion?

    Whatever happened to preaching the necessity of new birth, of taking up your cross and following Christ?

    Instead we keep getting pablum about joining this or that fellowship and we will come alongside you and gently disciple you, hoping someday you decide to trust Jesus.

    Maybe I'm just feeling old today, but I sure would like for the gospel to be laid out for people. I sure would like for people to know they need to be born again. I sure would like for them to hear Jesus saves AND WHEN HE DOES HE RADICALLY CHANGES THE HEART.

    I live in a town rife with drug abuse, poverty, alcoholism, domestic abuse, and with a high crime rate.

    We need folks radically converted FROM sin, not petted along offering to let them hold onto sin as long as they want it and just adding in a little fire insurance and sloppy agape.

    OK, I feel better and will get off my little soap box now.
     
  2. Shortandy

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    The message of radical conversion; being born again, a new creation, transformed in mind and conformed in being; has been replaced.

    Now people preach behavior modifications as the gospel.
     
  3. nodak

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    Amen, Bro. Shortandy, Amen!

    But this old grandma came to a conclusion last night:

    I'm an old grandma, not a preacher.

    But I WILL refuse to talk up behavior modification and I WILL, with my Lord's help, as long as I have breath, talk up radical conversion.

    If the pulpits in my town won't do it, I guess its time for a grandma brigade.
     
    #3 nodak, Sep 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2010
  4. Dr. Bob

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    All conversion is radical. It is the hidden, inward work of the holy Spirit of God in the heart of stone, changing it into a living heart.

    It is 100% God's work (Jesus made sure we all understood this when He talked with Nick at night) to which all who are truly regenerated will respond in abject repentance and faith, crying out to the Lord.

    It is not by self-effort, self-change, self-nurture, self-decisionism, self-timing - not by self-anything! Like Jonah of all we cry "Salvation is of the Lord".
     
  5. thebuzzard

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    Well said. I think we are often looking for the radical "evidence" of conversion when that is only brought about be the Lord Himself in a heart that is willing to yield to Him.

    Can't get more radical the moving from death to life. It seems we want the new convert to prove his salvation to us when only God knows the heart of man (Jer 17:9&10).

    What if we take a look at the person on a day he is NOT showing what we view as the correct behavior of a believer? Or, what if we see someone on a day they "look" like what a believer should be and then we find out down the road the person was not actually saved.

    If we will preach the Gospel of Christ and then follow up on decisions with an effort to ground and disciple those who receive Christ we would not have as many who stay babes in Christ.

    I know in my own life it was months after I was saved before anyone started to help me grow in the Word. Before that, I knew I was saved but did not know what to do besides tell some lost friends.

    Over the years, I have grown in the Lord and I am pretty sure have a life much more in line with the Biblical description of a mature believer. But it did take time to get there and I'm no where near where I think I should be yet.
     
  6. annsni

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    But I think what has happened so often today is that we're giving "Cat Theology 101" to everyone. We tell them that God has a wonderful plan for their lives. That God wants them happy, healthy and hearty. He wants them successful and prosperous. If we want something, just tell Him and He'll do it for us. He's there to serve us.

    What about giving some "Dog Theology" instead??? This is your Master. He is the One who owns you. He bought you with a very steep price. Because of what He did for you, your heart belongs to Him and Him only. Serve no other.

    I think we "G" rate the gospel so much that it's really just not worth much anymore. We're getting "converts" who bail at the first sign of trouble. We get people who put God in a nice little box to open on Sundays and whenever they need Him. Instead, we should be letting people know that God is extraordinary. That the love that He has for us is so huge that He died on the cross to pay the full judgment of our sins since we couldn't ever fulfill the penalty ourselves. Becoming a Christian is so much more than walking forward and saying a set of words. It's a life changing event.
     
  7. thebuzzard

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    Very true. The only variation I would suggest is that the "life changing" part of the event is sometimes immediate and sometimes it takes a while. I know it took a while for me but it was non the less life changing. In my ministry I have had people saved and undergo a huge and immediate life change. I have had others who received Christ but it took time for them to come to the place of yielding each area of their life to Christ but it did happen.

    I see the Holy Spirit as the one responsible for the life change and our side of the responsibility it in how (and how quickly) we yield to Him.

    I also see much of the responsibility for both success and failure in the lives of new converts on the shoulders of US.... The Church. We as believers are told to make disciples but WE tend to slack off on that and then blame the baby believers for not knowing what to do.
     
  8. Alive in Christ

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    I cant agree with that. I think its alive and well, as it is ordained by God.


    The "Lets bring them in and gently disciple them" method is fine. Nothing wrong with it it all. Some people will never respond to an altar call, and God knows who those are, and He will lead them to the other method.

    Praise God.

    There is also nothing wrong with the traditional "preaching and come forward" method. God know who will respond to that method, and will lead them to it.

    Praise God.

    In the part of the US where I live its still found all over the place. In chuches, on TV and on the radio.


    There is more than one way of evangelism.
     
    #8 Alive in Christ, Sep 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2010
  9. stilllearning

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    Hi Dr. Bob

    When I saw your name pop up, in this thread, I was anxious to read your response;
    (But unfortunately, I was not surprised.)

    I too, long for the days, when unsaved people were “born again”, and their life really changed.
    --------------------------------------------------
    But the reason for this response, is to point out, that when Nicodemus came to Jesus, in John 3:, he did not experience the same thing that an unsaved sinner experiences, when he comes to Jesus today.

    You see, Nicodemus was already saved; He was just backslidden.

    Jesus came to the Jews(God’s people), to bring them back to God!
    --------------------------------------------------
    This is made clear in the Gospels, but it is nailed down in Acts.......
    Acts 13:43
    “Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.”


    Here we see an example of Jew, receiving the Gospel;
    But this verse does not say that they were “saved”, but that they “continue in the grace of God”.

    Now, later on in Acts, we find Jews being “saved”, but this is after the nation was “blinded”........
    Romans 11:7
    “What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded”
     
  10. Luke2427

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    So you believe all of the Jews were saved?

    I hope you are kidding or that you mean something different than what your words imply.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    He is in the Oharite Cult and sadly "not kidding". They are woefully confused if regenerated at all.
     
  12. kyredneck

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  13. freeatlast

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    Now that is a liberal response. The OP is correct the church has changed. We are in the mist of the falling away. These whimpy preachers today want to pass everything onto the Lord. It does make it easier for them. No persecution for preaching truth and calling men to repent so just claim that you love people and wait while the church still continues to fall away.
     
  14. thebuzzard

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    Please explain how this is a "liberal response". I am genuinely asking.
     
  15. freeatlast

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    It had to do with the a response to the OP. The response seems to suggest that we do not need to preach against sin. While the word repent was mentioned, in today's world of postmodernism no longer does repent mean what the bible means.
     
  16. thebuzzard

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    It is definitely true in so many churches today that the subjects of sin and Godliness are diminished or avoided. That is a sad commentary on the church.

    I do see that a lost person can not make themselves more acceptable to God by stopping a certain sin(s). The indwelling Holy Spirit has the job of conviction and that can come before and/or after someone comes to Christ.

    The mistaken belief that if I am a Christian I will never have to give an account of my decisions and actions is a disciple killer.

    Scripture is so clear that we will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to account for everything we do. 2 Cor 5:9-10 "9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."
     
  17. nodak

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    Just for clarity: what I oppose is this wishy washy just come let Jesus love on you no no no repentance is necessary no no you don't have to put your faith in Christ you are such a good person and Jesus will make you have such a smooth easy path in life.

    Jesus Christ came to save sinners. All are sinners.

    THAT is good news. We are not addicts, not victims, not dysfunctional. We are sinners. And He saves sinners. Once saved, He will deal with the addictions, the abusers, the dysfunctions.

    But we don't want to offend by mentioning the s word (sin.)

    We don't want to challenge people to get off one road and onto another road.

    We seem to think if we get them to hang around us that is enough.

    As Bro. Joe Bunce taught us so well back in NM, you can go to hell just as quick from a Baptist church pew as you can from a barstool.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    I am guilty of this I freely admit.

    Salvation is 100% of God and 0% of Bob. Everything passed on to Him.

    Convincing of sin/broken Law is 100% by God
    Regenerating and giving repentance/faith is 100% by God
    Being born again is 100% by God and we see, like the wind, only the result
    100% on God. He's got to do it.

    I am confused why one would think this "liberal" (that God is the Author of our faith, not me)? It is the MOST CONSERVATIVE view I know . .
     
  19. thebuzzard

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    Well stated. It's either all God or all us and, if it's us, we are in deep trouble. I have no power to do anything outside of the Lord.
     
  20. Mexdeaf

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    Unfortunately, I was not surprised at your response either.
     

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