Hate crimes

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 14, 2003.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Would it be a hate crime if someone beat me up then tore my Bible to shreds as i left church because I was a born again Christian?

    How does one qualify to be a hate crime victim?
     
  2. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Legally? I'm not sure, but I would think so IF you can prove that it was because you were a born-again Christian and not because some bully took a personal dislike to you.

    I believe to qualify, you'd have to victimized because of your being a member of a group, not just randomly, not for profit, and not on your own account. It's not enough to be hated for yourself, you have to be hated for your kind.

    Hm, if that's so, then couldn't a member of a gang, say the Bloods, claim to be a hate victim if they were maimed by a rival gang? Or if someone was beat up for being a member of the Klu Klux Klan? I dunno.
     
  3. jet11

    jet11
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    0
    A crime is a crime is a crime. It should not matter why the person committed the crime.

    In your example, it is assault. Assault is a crime and no matter why it was committed, it should be treated as any other assault.
     
  4. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Should be" and "is" are two different things.
     
  5. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    40
    Daisy sez:
    Thank you!! this is the most concise argument I've seen to reject such a stupid law as "HATE CRIME" [​IMG]
     
  6. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    10,988
    Likes Received:
    79
    Quoting from the article you cited, Hardsheller:

    "Don Hinkle, editor of The Pathway, said there seems to be a double standard being applied to this investigation by federal authorities.

    '"If this is not a federal hate crime, then I'd like to see what constitutes one. I guess there is no such thing as a hate crime against Bible-believing Christians...."'

    There is a double standard. As a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, I would never be the victim of a hate crime although I could commit a hate crime because of my racial identity according to the law.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    A "hate crime" is not necessarily a federal case. A little graffiti on a sign and they call the FBI? Were there death threats or were churches burned? That would probably warant serious attention.

    Swazikas get spray painted on Synagogues here, maybe the police will take a report. Someone was destroying statues in front of Catholic churches here and again, only local police - even though the damage amount probably pushed it to a felony.

    My own husband was walking down the street when some guy got out of his car, punched him a few times in the face and then tried to run him over. Even though two complete strangers went with him as witnesses to the police station, the police wouldn't even make a report, much less investigate it (one of the strangers had the license plate number). This was unprovoked violence, but they couldn't have cared less.

    The sign could be interpreted as provocation - obviously was by the activists.

    I seriously doubt that's true. Do you have anything other than your own opinion to back that up?
     
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    10,988
    Likes Received:
    79
    Only your posts, Daisy.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2003
    FEDERAL "HATE CRIMES" LEGISLATION IS ON THE WAY

    by Neil Boortz

    Now we have Republican Senator Orin Hatch joining with Teddy Kennedy in pushing yet another version of a federal hate crimes bill. This bill would allow federal prosecution for any crime motivated by prejudice based things like race, ethnicity and religion, but also on gender, sexual orientation or disability of the victim.

    Come on, folks. Let's call this what it is. It's "thought crimes" legislation, not "hate crimes." It allows for the federal government to step in and prosecute someone for what they were thinking when they committed a crime. Let's say this crime became law. A white person commits a crime against a black person. The white person is prosecuted in a state court and is acquitted by a jury. Civil rights warlords would then be in a position to pressure the local federal prosecutor to bring a federal hate crimes charge against the white person. The federal government could then step in and prosecute the white person not for what that person did to his victim, but because of what that person may have been thinking when he did it.

    There was a trial in Atlanta recently of a group of particularly noxious young whites who attacked a group of blacks in an area known as Little Five Points. The whites were yelling racial epithets. These whites were convicted and sentenced to jail. Some local race warlords immediately started screaming to high heaven because these idiot kids didn't receive 20-year sentences. If this federal law were in place the race warlords would be able to pressure the feds to bring the federal hate crimes charges to bear. Maybe they could get their precious 20-year sentences after all.

    Another scenario. I'm waking down the street with a black friend. A gang of white skinheads comes up and pounds the stew out of both of us. The skinheads are charged with assault, tried, convicted and sentenced to jail. Then along comes the federal government to file hate crime charges against the skinheads. They are going to be charged with an extra crime because they attacked the black guy. The federal government will view the assault on my black friend as one worthy of federal prosecution ...simply because of what they feel skinheads were thinking at the time. The assault on me? Not worthy of federal attention. Tell me, is the law treating me equally in this scenario? Can you honestly say that I'm getting equal treatment?

    Hate may be ugly, but it is not illegal. In a free society you should be free to engage the negative emotion of hate as you see fit. You cannot legislate loving or liking someone. Thought processes should not be crime. Actions should be crimes. This federal hate crime bill, as all hate crime bills, is a bad idea.


    boortz.org
     
  11. IanM

    IanM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    a christian be a victim of a hate crime. Not in America. Let any group claim its is a victim and the courts are all gung ho. Christians are fair game though. If there is any group in this great nation tht is discriminated against and attacked, it is the Christians. I served proudly in the Unitd States Air Force and truly love our nation. What has become of this Christian nation however is truly a shame.
     
  12. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    You didn't actually read my first reply to this thread, did you, CMG? There is no way you could construe it to be anti-Christian or anti-WASPman.
     
  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    10,988
    Likes Received:
    79
    You cannot send me to the gulag for not reading your posts, Daisy, because I read everything that you write.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    You didn't actually read my first reply to this thread, did you, CMG? There is no way you could construe it to be anti-Christian or anti-WASPman. </font>[/QUOTE]i see your post as anti Christian. you seem to favor hate crime legislation, knowing that bias against Christians is biblical and bound to happen. the system will always be unfair to Christians. political correctness and time will spell trouble for Christians. Christians will be targeted soon for spreading hate from scripture. you should reevaluate your stance
     
  15. True Blue Tuna

    True Blue Tuna
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hm. Actually, it does matter.

    That is how we legally separate negligent or accidental manslaughter from capital murder. The first carries far more lenient punishment than the latter. Intent is an element of the crime.

    That isn't how the law works - fortunately.
     
  16. JoeElliott

    JoeElliott
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is a crime to beat you up, period, regardless of the motivation. This is why we don't need hate crime laws. It is already against the law to assault someone. Hate crime laws really are about regulating what we can think. The motivation, the thoughts are punished instead of the action. The action is already illegal. Hate crimes laws make the thoughts illegal too.

    In Christ's Love

    Joe Elliott
    http://members.aol.com/joe4jesus/index.htm
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    My original point was the duplicity of so called "hate crimes" legislation.

    Hate crime legislation is designed to protect only certain groups. Of course all assualts should be crime without trying to determine whether they were mortivated by hate.
     
  18. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Christ4Kildare asked if a Christian were attacked for being a Christian if that would qualify as a "hate" crime to which I said that it would. We have hate crime laws where I live, so I answered according to my knowledge of how it works.

    The question was not should hate crime laws exist, but how would it work under this circumstance.

    As for changing my "stance", I don't really have one. There are arguments on both sides and I haven't been persuaded either way. On the whole, I think I'm against it, the legislation, because it does rather reek of "thought police".

    Hate crime laws should apply equally to Christians and non-Christians, so I don't see how they are necessarily anti-Christian.
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    I can't figure out what you said Daisy that merited the attack on you.

    Your point is clear, IF hate crimes exist (whether or not they should) they should apply to all crimes commited on the basis of hate for that group.
     
  20. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks.
     

Share This Page

Loading...