Have we forgot the weightier matters

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Judith, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Judith

    Judith
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    If we are really those who are going to heaven we are told that we shall be (are to be) holy. How about it? Are we holy? Here is an inspiring message that deals with this. Although it is directed at pastors and teachers it applies to all of us. You will have to download it to listen to it, but it is well worth it. And for those who are in the ministry I would encourage you not to preach another message or teach another class without listening to this. The message is by Steve Lawson. Please share if you feel we as Baptists need this in our pulpits and personal lives.
    God bless
    http://media.shepherdsfellowship.org/2014/General Sessions/1008.mp3
     
  2. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    One who thinks they are holy by their own merits is just as deceived as the rich young ruler when he told the master he had kept the commandments from his youth .
     
    #2 salzer mtn, Mar 16, 2014
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  3. Judith

    Judith
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    And one who does not seek holiness in their life is just a deceived as the ones who will say Lord, Lord and hear I never knew you.
     
  4. Van

    Van
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    Like many Reformed messages, he got some things right and some things wrong.

    1) We are to discipline ourselves, but we are to submit to the authority of others and accept discipline from others. See the model of church discipline.

    2) The purpose of discipline (self and from others) is godliness. His sermon was an effort to encourage more godly behavior. And at its core is our devotion toward and love of Christ. We must strive to follow Him.

    3) Salvation comes in three parts, progressive sanctification being the subject of this passage (1 Timothy 4:7-10). The doctrine of monergistic sanctification, i.e. God does it all through justification, is pure twaddle.

    4) We are to work hard and play by the rules, striving (even agonizing) to receive our reward - Jesus saying, welcome home, good and faithful servant.

    5) Near the end, he goes off the rails, trying to deny God desires all to be saved, and to deny Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all, claiming Christ bought the church (which is true) but skipping Christ bought the false prophet (2 Peter 2:1).

    The question we must ask ourselves is, did the inclusion of so much that is unbiblical disqualify the message in its entirety.
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
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    Holiness is simple. Holiness is love.
    Philippians 1, NASB
    9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
    10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
    11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. [Emphasis added]
    We love Him because He first loved us, and He enables us to fulfill the two greatest commandments through love: Love Him, love others.
     
  6. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    If a man is not honest with himself, neither is he honest with God or his neighbor. There is no man living that loves God on a constant basis with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his strength. There is no man that loves his neighbor on a constant basis as he does himself. If a man loved God with all his heart, soul and strength and his neighbor as himself he would be a man without sin. Do you know any person without sin ? We that are Christians need God's grace every day because of imperfection. There are many sin's in man such as pride, self righteousness and love of self that the person that is full of these sins don't recognize because each of these sin wears a mask that appears to the person as a virtue of zeal or holy boldness ect. We are not talking about what one desires to be but in reality what we are in the flesh. I know that in me there is a lot lacking but I also know, I am complete in Him (Christ).
     
    #6 salzer mtn, Mar 17, 2014
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  7. Judith

    Judith
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    And Jesus said if you love Me you will keep my commandments.
     
  8. salzer mtn

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    One of the commandments is to love thy neighbor as yourself. Judith could you love your neighbor if that neighbor murdered your only child but also tortured that child before it's death and had no remorse whatsoever about doing it. If that neighbor was to be put to death for that crime but the judge said you could take his place therefore sparing his life but giving yours in return. The bible say's, Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church. Could you deny yourself and take his place ?
     
  9. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    Judith, One of the commandments is, Thou shalt not steal. If your children were starving to death for want of something to eat and you didn't have a job and the opportunity arises you could feed them a meal but it would involve stealing a loaf of bread without getting caught at a bakery, would you do it ? You see we all can boast of keeping commandments when we are not being tested but what if you were put to a severe test.
     
  10. Van

    Van
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    Fact one is we are to strive to be sinless, fact two is that we fail. But we should make no accommodation with the flesh, saying since I know I will fail, there is no need to strive to the point of anguish to try to avoid sinful thoughts and deeds. That is tantamount to saying since grace will abound, let us sin all the more.

    Let go and let God wears masks with names like antinomianism or exhaustive determinism.
     
  11. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    To answer your fact one, I said as much in another post. To answer your other statements, You use the same arguments as a person that believes in falling from grace, They say, If I believed in eternal salvation I would just go ahead and sin. The difference in you and I is, I believe Christ is my salvation and your christ is just a fire escape.
     
    #11 salzer mtn, Mar 17, 2014
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  12. righteousdude2

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    It is all so simple...

    ...with you! In fact, it is so simple that you must be at the very top of what it means to be holy!

    Can you tell me what makes you believe that you are holy, simply because you "love Him and keep His commandments?"

    I mean, what do you know about you that screams out to others, "Look at me, I am holy?"

    Based on your OP and comments, I'm would be curious to know how you know that you are holy based on 2 Corinthians 13:4-6 (NLT), "For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you. Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test? But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.…" :wavey:
     
  13. Van

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    1) By not capitalizing Christ, (your christ) you seem to be questioning my salvation.

    2) By using guilt by association, i.e. saying my argument is like those who believe in loss of salvation, you present another logical fallacy.

    3) The question is, do we strive to enter heaven "abundantly" as a faithful servant, or do we enter heaven as one escaping from a fire.

    4) Monergistic sanctification is pure twaddle.
     
    #13 Van, Mar 18, 2014
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  14. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    And what were His commandments? (Hint: Matthew 22:40)
     
  15. Van

    Van
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    If you read through Matthew and look at Christ's instructions as imperatives, you will find about 75 commands or teachings of Christ that we are to apply to our lives synergistically. :)

    Monergistic sanctification is twaddle.
     
  16. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
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    I repeat ...
    That verse answers my question, and there aren't 75 of them.
     
    #16 thisnumbersdisconnected, Mar 18, 2014
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  17. Van

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    I believe Jesus not only taught the sum and substance of the OT law, but gave us the Law of Christ. The number of commands and instructions in Matthew may not be exactly 75, but there are about 75 of them. Jesus said we should make disciples and teach "all" that He commanded. Thus the command to make disciples is in addition to love God and love your neighbor.

    Thus monergistic sanctification remains twaddle.
     
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Not for any purpose toward salvation or sanctification, He did not.
    Nope. The command is consistent with, and therefore an extension of, "Love thy neighbor." Nothing more.
    While that's true, it has nothing to do with this subject.
     
  19. Van

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    Good Golly Miss Molly, by looking backwards, one can say this is an extension of love your God and neighbor, but flip it and tell me how a person would know to make disciples from the summary? That dog will not hunt.

    Glad you too understand that monergistic sanctification is twaddle. Apparently you did not listen to the OP presentation, as monergistic sanctification was addressed. So your claim it has nothing to do with the subject seems uninformed. Does looking backwards to justification ring a bell?
     
  20. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    So, if we have Christ in our hearts, we aren't motivated to share Him with others? Really??
     

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