Have Ye Believed in Vain?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
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    1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    HP: What does it mean to have ‘believed in vain?’
     
  2. TCGreek

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    HP, I see what I call a tension in Scripture.

    God has saved us, but we must confirmed his calling and choosing of us through faithfulness (2 Pet 1:3-11).
     
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    The Scripture in question speaks of 'believing in vain.' Are you saying that if one does not 'confirm his calling' that he has believed in vain? If so, can you explain to us how we 'confirm our calling' and as to what is the fate of those who do not confirm their calling?
     
  4. TCGreek

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    If you believe in analogia scriptura, then let's proceed.

    Notice that Paul was reminding his readers of the fundamentals of the gospel because some where challenging the very heart of the gospel (v. 12).

    Not every profession of faith is genuine. We are going to have weeds among the wheat.

    Peter says that we confirm our calling by adding what he outlined (2 Pet 1:5-7).
     
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Are you saying that one can indeed be deceived as to his standing before God, thinking himself in possession of the hope of eternal life when in reality having hell as his only real hope? Can one believe that he is wheat when in reality he is but chaff or tares?
     
  6. TCGreek

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    What then are weeds or tares?
     
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: You tell me.:)
     
  8. BobRyan

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    When the dead ground "comes to life" in Matt 13 in the case of the Rocky soil and the thorny soil -- the "measure of failure" is the degree to which 'that which WAS alive and growing - dies".

    If one only wants to discuss "NEVER was alive" then one can only talk about the see that fell by the way side -- never sprang to life.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    Matthew 7 declares that many will think they are saved having done many things in the Lord's name and never truly knew the Lord.
     
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: BR must be clairvoyant having posted this before SFIC posted his.:)
     
  11. TCGreek

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    Plug in Matt 7, the reference from SFIC, and you'll get your weeds.
     
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Why not just put it in your own words so I can see what you think they are? Do they know, in the here and now, what they are, or can they in fact be decieved? Could have they at one time believed, yet in the end be found to have 'believed in vain?'
     
    #12 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2008
  13. LeBuick

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    I think he expounds on the meaning later in the chpt.

    1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
    14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
    15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
    16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
    19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
     
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I am having trouble tying the ideas you are pointing to together. How does the verse that you highlighted fit with having 'believed in vain?' Can you tie them together for us? Who was the author addressing? Believers or non-believers?
     
  15. LeBuick

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    They believed only part of the Gospel by teaching there was no resurrection of the dead. That's why Paul keeps repeating in this chapter that he preached the "full gospel" that he received to them which is the death, burial and resurrection.

    I think this chapter climaxes here;

    1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

    If there is no resurrection then what is the point in the rest of the Gospel? I guess our sins would be forgiven but once we died that's it.
     
  16. TCGreek

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    HP, Jesus would not utter those words if some would not be deceiving themselves into think they're true believers when they really are not.
     
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: What is it to have 'faith in vain?' I thought that it was faith alone and that if one has faith he is saved. This passage would appear to say that one can have faith, yet it is in vain in certain instances. That hangs 'faith alone' out to dry does it not? When is faith vain and when is it not? Is it vain from the start or just when one develops wrong ideas concerning the reserrection?

    Has such a one ever been a believer? Could such a one have ever been a believer? Does one have to have ‘right doctrine’ concerning the resurrection in order to be saved? Can one be saved that is mistaken concerning the resurrection? Again, to whom is this passage addressed to? Is he addressing believers or non-believers?
     
  18. LeBuick

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    I don't think it's just faith, in this case it's faith in what. Anyone can go around and say I have faith but unless that faith is in the full Gospel of Jesus Christ then if I read Paul right, that faith is vain.

    It is the Gospel, the complete Gospel that is the power of God unto salvation.

    Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Also, I am not overlooking this part of your curiosity, "Is he addressing believers or non-believers?" I don't know how to answer it. As the others have said with the tare amongst the wheat, Mat 7 etc... I can't argue against that.

    I had a preacher that sat under me a few years back that didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God. He'd argue with me and would bring in scripture(s) and stuff he downloaded from the internet. I never once questioned his salvation but I also never let him preach, teach etc...

    Part of my understanding about the wheat and the tare is there is a good reason it isn't separated until harvest time...

    Mt 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
    25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
    26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
    27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
    29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
    30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

    I don't think we are to know the difference;

    Mt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
     
    #18 LeBuick, Apr 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2008
  19. trustitl

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    I do some farming so I will give it a try:

    Wheat is a grain that is currently trading for around $11/bushel because the demand is so high. It is very useful for grinding to be made into bread and used for human consumption around the world.

    Tares is a term used to describe a plant that Jesus said to let grow with the wheat. This is the best description I could find for tares:

    The Greek word translated "tares" is ζιζάνια (zizania), plural of ζιζάνιον (zizanion). This word is thought to mean darnel.

    Lolium temulentum
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Lolium temulentum, typically known as darnel or cockle, is an annual plant that forms part of the Poaceae family and part of the Lolium genus. The plant stem can grow up to 1 meter tall, with inflorescence in the ears and purple grain. It grows plentifully in Syria and Israel.

    It usually grows in the same production zones as wheat and is considered a weed. The similarity between these two plants is so extensive that in some regions cockle is referred to as "false wheat." It bears a close resemblance to wheat until the ear appears.
     
  20. steaver

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    Thank you trustitl.

    And this is why we find many warnings (if's and endure's) to be sure you are born again.

    God bless! :thumbs:
     

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