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Have you heard? The VOICE

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by franklinmonroe, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    I agree that The Voice seems to have put 'the-cart-before-the-horse' when they admit that they started by creating an English rendering and then adjusted their rendering to "align" with the original texts. But what was that initial English rendering based on, if not original language texts? If the first rendering is actually based upon preceding works of English translation, then The Voice is truly more paraphrase of those sources than its own original translation. And is this rendering merely examined ("vetted") by the biblical scholars?

    So, the information available is a mixed bag.
     
    #41 franklinmonroe, Nov 11, 2008
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  2. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    I regard the "not starting within [a box]" comment as the result of misguided marketing hype. But two other statements you emphasized can also be applied to many genuine translations: "words are translated into more common terminology" ('churchy' words primarily); and, "word order and parts of speech are sometimes altered".

    A third: Wayne Hasting's comment that "the true voice of the human author of that particular section of Scripture" could be misunderstood as marginalizing God as The Author, but I think he was alluding to what is more fully explained in the context of the Preface {my underline} --
    ... About 40 different human authors are believed to have been inspired by God to write the Scriptures. The Voice retains the perspective of the human writers. Most English translations attempt to even out the styles of the different authors in sentence structure and vocabulary. Instead, The Voice distinguishes the uniqueness of each author. The heart of the project is retelling the story of the Bible in a form as fluid as modern literary works yet remaining true to the original manuscripts.​
    Is retaining the literary characteristics of the human writers a bad thing?
     
    #42 franklinmonroe, Nov 11, 2008
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  3. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Can you cite some specifics that made you feel this way?
     
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Well, calling God "the Voice"? He's the Almighty God. Not a "voice". That sounds pretty disembodied to me.

    In the John 1:1-2 passage, it reads:

    Before time itself was measured, the
    Voice was speaking. The Voice was and
    is God. 2This celestial Voice remained
    ever present with the Creator;


    Where does it say that the Word was God? That the "Voice" was God? Does it even mention God? No. It speaks just like the New Age people I encounter on another board. Voices, energies - NOT the person of God. Besides, we know that all things were made through Jesus. In the "standard" versions, we see John 1 saying "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word Was God." Here we don't see being but doing. And then it says that the "Voice" (the Word? - Jesus?) was with the Creator. The Creator WAS Jesus. Where is God in this passage?

    Nope - New Age gobbledygook.
     
  5. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Can you appreciate how it must sound to 'uninitiated' heathen to hear Jesus being referred to as "the Word"? I think we have become so comfortable with some of our jargon that we don't realize how foreign it can sound to the rest of the world.

    Remember that logos has been broadly interpreted in English also as "saying", "utterance", "speech" and otherwise miscellaneously (in the KJV about 30 different ways). Could you have identified the term that represents logos in Matthew 21:24, Mark 1:45, Luke 5:15, Acts 15:27, and in Romans 9:28 below? (KJV) --
    And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.

    But he went out, and began to publish [it] much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus could no more openly enter into the city, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter.

    But so much the more went there a fame abroad of him: and great multitudes came together to hear, and to be healed by him of their infirmities.

    We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.

    For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.​
    So, could logos in John 1:1 have been properly rendered as 'the Thing', 'the Matter' or 'the Fame' was with God in the beginning? Technically, yes. We can probably thank John Wycliffe for giving to us what seems to be now a very elegant translation of logos in reference to the Divine. But 'the Voice' really does not seem to be outside the semantic range of the Greek word.
     
    #45 franklinmonroe, Nov 12, 2008
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  6. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    However, John 1:1 says that the Word was always from the beginning, was with God and was God. I do not see the fact that the "voice" was God at all in the "Voice" book. I do not think that the original Greek says that the "logos" was with the creator, does it?
     
  7. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    In John 1:1 of The Voice version it clearly states that "The Voice was and is God."

    Now, looking at John 1:1-3 (KJV) --
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    The same was in the beginning with God.
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    Of course, we see that the title "Creator" does not appear in the KJV, but there is the statement that "all things were made by him". Who is "him"? The closest antecedent is "God" in the immediate prior verse, although most interpretations are that "him" refers back to the "Word". But as just defined previously, the "Word" is God and so that sense "The Voice" (or "The Word") & God are together AND separately the "Creator". Genesis also tells us that the Holy Spirit was also involved with creation.

    It almost seems that The Voice rendering is making a distinction between "The Voice" and the "Creator" (God) with their wording in verse 1:2 {their italic, my underline} --
    "This celestial Voice remained ever present with the Creator". ​
     
  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Is the voice the creator? Because the Scripture says that the Word was the Creator.
     
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I think it is a matter of semantics at this point.
     
  10. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Well, to use Col. 1:16-21 as you quoted:

    16 It was by Him that everything was created: the heavens, the earth, all things within and upon them, all things seen and unseen, thrones and dominions, spiritual powers and authorities. Every detail was crafted through His design, by His own hands, and for His purposes. 17 He has always been! It is His hand that holds everything together. 18 He is the head of this body, the church. He is the beginning, the first of those to be reborn from the dead, so that in every aspect, at every view, in everything - He is first. 19 God was pleased that all His fullness should forever dwell in the Son, 20 who, as predetermined by God, bled peace into the world by His death on the cross as God's means of reconciling the whole creation to Himself - all things in heaven and all things on earth.

    There is more interpretation and extrapolation than translation. At least they were honest enough to use italics.

    The phrase 'bled peace into the world by His death on the cross'- poor substitute for 'making peace by the blood of his cross.'

    It qualifies as more of a paraphrase than a translation, IMHO.
     
  11. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Thanks for this info. However, I don't think "to receive with the mind" is the same as an "inner calling," at least as far as the implications of the phrase "inner calling" is being used today. An "inner calling" is usually about knowing an "inner Jesus." Just go within and "hear" God. This is being taught in churches today; it subverts scripture.
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Same passage from the NASB:
    1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2He was in the beginning with God.
    3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
    4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
    5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.


    7He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
    8He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
    9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
    10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
    11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
    12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
    13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


    15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
    16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
    17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him



    I see big differences.
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree. An "inner calling" is a calling from ourselves - not from God. A call from God is external even though we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The calling would still come from God - outside of ourselves. Whenever I've heard "inner calling" - it's a self-thing.
     
  14. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Here are eleven Biblical Scholars listed as contributers in the front of The Voice New Testament --
    Joseph Blair, ThD
    Darrell L. Bock, PhD
    David B. Capes, PhD
    Allen Culpepper, PhD
    Peter H. Davids, PhD
    Joseph Dodson, PhD
    Peter Rhea Jones, Sr., PhD
    Troy Miller, PhD
    Felisi Sorgwe, PhD
    Kenneth Waters, Sr., PhD
    Jack Wisdom, JD​
    Other contributers under the heading of "Old Testament Biblical Scholars" --
    David B. Capes, PhD
    Peter H. Davids, PhD
    J. Andrew Dearman, PhD
    Bret Dutton, PhD
    Dave Garber, PhD
    Mark Gignilliat, PhD
    Sheri Klouda, PhD
    Tremper Longman, PhD
    Creig Marlowe, PhD
    Frank Patrick, PhD
    Chuck Pitts, PhD
    Brian Russell, PhD
    Felisi Sorgwe, PhD
    Kristin Swenson, PhD
    Nancy de Claisse Walford, PhD​
     
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