HCSB > KJVs (examples)

It's dangerous to call Jesus "Master" or "Sovereign"? Is that really what you're saying? Do you deny that Jesus is the sovereign master of the universe, or that God is the sovereign ruler?

I don't find it trivial at all, but dangerous indeed that just because someone you don't want to associate with uses the term "sovereign" you're afraid to use it to describe Christ's absolute rule over the universe.

Are all the old hymns wrong then? O Master Let Me Walk With Thee, for instance? Or this one?:

--From the hymn Heavenly Father, Sovereign Lord by Charles Wesley

Don't let superstition rob you of these wonderful hymns or these wonderful words that describe so accurately our Saviour and our God! Please!

 

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Your argument here is nothing but a scare tactic Michelle. You are trying to scare people to think that the HCSB is gnostic or new age, and you are flat out WRONG! You really need to check on the Greek, even from your KJV, before you post your nonsense
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It is not a scare tactic, but rather a warning. Read the second link I gave you, and read what they do: they change the titles/names of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. These names and titles of our Lord have been changed ever so subtley, and unwarrantedly. Now, you must ask yourself why?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Deborah B. mentioned some of these already, but here is a post-resurrection list from the KJV. Michelle said "They have no such place to describe our LORD GOD, nor our LORD AND SAVIOUR Jesus Christ":

John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Col 4:1 Masters, give unto [your] servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

2 Tim 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

 

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Is Jesus you master Michelle? Just remember, one day you are going to have to stand before the Lord and give account to why you would state such lies about His word. It is a great thing that you hold so dear to your KJV, but why would you even want to defame God's words that are more understandable to this generation and the next?? Remember His promise to preserve His words for all generations??? 1600's, 1700's are not my generation! I pray for you sister!
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I think I, and a few others posting here on these boards have explained "why" quite well. Why are you ignoring these things, and then claim and accuse me of defaming God's words? I and others are warning you and others of those who have and under the guise that the KJB is hard to understand and so we need to update it to our modern English. If this was true, how come there are multitudes of modern versions on the market in the English Language today? Is God's word that which should be marketed like this? Our Lord Jesus surely did say, that if the blind follow the blind, they both fall into the ditch, and that a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump of dough.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Those 2 websites you mentioned in your last post.
The first claims that the plans of the NWO to take over the world are revealed in a cardgame.
And that second site is rather pro-Roman-Catholic.
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The first site is a great site, and speaks truth. Did you look at the articles on freemasonry? Yes, that website states the truth, that that card game was invented 5 years prior to 911 and what they think about that.

The second website shows you what freemasonry is, and who is involved, and what they have said: from thier own words.

Remember this, Jesus said to be as wise as serpents, but as harmless as doves.

If you disregard these websites, that is fine, but then I surely hope you realize that you are never in this world, going to find unbiased material, or material from sources that are absolutely correct in everything they say/believe.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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mioque, they also have nothing to do with this thread....again.
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I was asked, how could I know if these things if they are from secret societies which keep things secret. I then gave the links, that show the information. It was asked, I provided and I do believe it has something to do with this thread, as I tried to show.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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I don't find it trivial at all, but dangerous indeed that just because someone you don't want to associate with uses the term "sovereign" you're afraid to use it to describe Christ's absolute rule over the universe.
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I guess you misunderstand me. I am not afraid of these terms. What I am warning of, is that long standing terms and titles are being changed to names and terms that have New Age applications and in verses that are inappropriately used for these terms. There was no reason to change these name and titles of our Lord and Saviour. This is the danger. Not necessarily referring to Jesus as Master or Soveriegn, but that they have been changed from what they always have been in those verses. This really shows to me, that something is not right.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
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This was, as I said, when he was in the flesh here on earth, prior to the resurrection.


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Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
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Notice the description "in heaven" which sets our Master in heaven, not here on earth.


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Col 4:1 Masters, give unto [your] servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
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Again, same as above...


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2 Tim 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.
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michelle said "This was, as I said, when he was in the flesh here on earth, prior to the resurrection."

No, it was after the resurrection, on earth, in flesh.

michelle said "Notice the description "in heaven" which sets our Master in heaven, not here on earth."

Ya, so? Your point?

 

Michelle,

Lord, Master and Sovereign are all synonyms. They mean exactly the same thing. You're making an issue out of something that is absolutely, positively a non-issue. Really.

Anyway, it seems your zeal for this issue is taking you into places I wish you weren't going--places and positions that are more and more strange and disreputable--and I regret any part my discussions with you may have played in pushing you into this. So I'm dropping out, and I wish you only blessings.

 

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John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
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This was, as I said, when he was in the flesh here on earth, prior to the resurrection.


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Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
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Notice the description "in heaven" which sets our Master in heaven, not here on earth.


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Col 4:1 Masters, give unto [your] servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
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Again, same as above...


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2 Tim 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.
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Here is more of the passage to put this into context:

19. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


Now ask yourself, in that verse, was this term APPROPRIATELY chosen for the verse?


Now let us look at the verse in the scriptures:

Jude 1

1. Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2. Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


Now look at this in reference to this verse:

1 John 2

22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


John 10

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.
31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


The term and name that has been changed is in relation to a title that is denoting our only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. This is not just speaking of Jesus Christ, but the Godhead.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Incredible, rather than admitting you are wrong about the term "master" was used after His resurrection here on earth, you just continue to state an untruth. John records these word after the resurrection and here on earth. Just admit you mis-spoke. Your unwillingness to do so in the face of biblical fact will only bring you to the place where no one can take you seriously in anything. You really need to quit coming up with a belief and then warping the Scripture to fit it, and just let the Scripture speak for itself. But I guess that has to be the approach for those who have no biblical authority for one version onlyism.

Bro Tony

 

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John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
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This was, as I said, when he was in the flesh here on earth, prior to the resurrection.

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Sorry, my error. Prior to his asscension.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Thank you for the correction. The point of the term master still does not hold to what you are asserting. And I say this as one who has nothing good to say about the false teachings and church destroying work of freemasonry.

Bro Tony

 

michelle said "Sorry, my error. Prior to his asscension."

So? What difference does that make? "Master" is used of Jesus after his resurrection in 4 verses in the KJV. Earlier you said "They have no such place to describe our LORD GOD, nor our LORD AND SAVIOUR Jesus Christ in such verses as these. Jesus Christ is never referred to after his resurrection as master or teacher."

Can't you just simply admit you were wrong???? Is it really so hard????

 

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So? What difference does that make? "Master" is used of Jesus after his resurrection in 4 verses in the KJV. Earlier you said "They have no such place to describe our LORD GOD, nor our LORD AND SAVIOUR Jesus Christ in such verses as these. Jesus Christ is never referred to after his resurrection as master or teacher."

Can't you just simply admit you were wrong???? Is it really so hard????
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I did correct my wrong as noted above. I did specify why those terms used are wrong because of the places they have been changed are descriptive of the Godhead in that verse, and in the few verses where Jesus is referred to as Master other than when he was in the flesh, here on earth, prior to his assension was accordingly specified "in heaven" with the one exception in Timothy, to where the context reveals why and who, without any doubt, as we are to follow Christ's (our Master's) teachings.


These are the scriptures folks. This is where we recieve our teachings from and our understanding of those teachings. They are not to be fooled with, nor changed by us, or anyone else, just because you deem they have appropriate synonyms for the words. I have done my duty and warned you. Now it is up to you.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

When will people learn that 95% of the garbage on the internet, is just that. . . garbage?

I guess if it is capable of entering cyberspace, it must be accurate.

 

Michelle, you said "Jesus Christ is never referred to after his resurrection as master or teacher." The fact is, he was, four times. Heaven/earth pre/post-ascension, is irrelevant. Spin all you want, but it is painfully obvious to everyone else.

 

Michelle, nowhere in the Bible does it say that we cannot use synonyms to replace the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, God or the Holy Spirit or any other person in the Bible. You have gone way overboard, and again I state you are on a slippery path. One reason, the KJV changed many words, changed references to our Lord, etc., yet you refuse to acknowledge that no matter how many times proof of same has been posted.Your warnings fall on deaf ears because of the asinine way you present things. Please, at least use a little common sense when you post and quit acting like you are the teacher and others are the student. You are far from a mature Christian, and your immaturity in Christ and in your own personal walk with the Lord shows in the way you approach others on these forums.

 

Jude 1:4 (KJV) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained, to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord1203 God, and our Lord2962 Jesus Christ.

Michelle, you failed to explain the definitions from Strong's KJV on Jude 1:4. Your attack was that "Lord" should not be translated as "Master". "Lord"1203 God, and our "Lord"2962 are two different words. (See above) 1203 is best defined as master. This is according to the very translation that you believe is the only inspired word of God (KJV).

1203
δεσπότης
despotēs
des-pot'-ace
Perhaps from G1210 and πόσις posis (a husband); an absolute ruler (“despot”): - Lord, master.

2962 Greek word is Kurios, which is correctly translated as Lord.

So it is obvious that the HCSB is more accurate than the KJV because it refers to Him as both Master and Lord!

It is the scriptures Michelle, even in the KJV. I have done my part to warn YOU! You are defaming God's words and trying to scare people to only use KJV, even at the risk of not comprehending it, and you will have to answer to the Lord for these lies you are spreading. I told you my experience with the KJV and my children's and the girls I teach at my church, and yet you still continue to try to scare me and others to use something that I/we don't comprehend. If you or others fully comprehend the KJV, GOOD FOR YOU, but I DON'T! I happen to need His words in my language, not archaic 400 year old English, and HE HAS PROVIDED ME WITH IT!!!!!!

Praise Christ Jesus!
Deborah