He died for the seed of abraham

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jul 30, 2011.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Heb 2:16

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    Talking about the Limited intent of the atonement, there is perhaps no scripture that declares it more plainly than this one..

    That the GodMan Mediatoral came to identify with the choice people he came to die for..not all of mankind, but the seed of abraham, that is a chosen people..

    Ps 105:6

    O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

    Isa 41:8

    But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend

    remember Jesus said :

    Jn 15:13

    13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.[chosen ones]

    When paul declared in 1 Cor 15:3

    3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    our sins = The seed of abraham..

    Heb 2:17,16

    17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].

    Notice, it says made like unto His brethern, which is the seed of abraham..

    This is the same brethern as in Rom 8:29

    29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Yes, the seed of abraham is distinguished and particular, but the scope was broad, the scope was the world, and not Just israel..

    Rom 4:18

    18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

    So, yes limited atonement is true, and must be preached truthfully or you have no gospel..

    That Jesus christ came and Identifed with , the seed of abraham, and died for the seed of abraham, and rose again for the Justification of the seed of abraham...This is the Gospel of the Kingdom..

    Yes, no doubt, all are sinners, but not all sinners are of the seed of abraham..
     
  2. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    You want to pick and choose the scriptures to support your error. The fact is that God promised a "seed" to Abraham from his own loins IN ADDITION from other nations - gentiles. Both are true. You just pick one and reject the other and then that is precisely the way you choose to interpret other scriptures that deal with BOTH contextually rather than one at the expense of the other:


    Gen. 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
    3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


    Gen. 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

    Ge 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

    Ge 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.


    Hence, it is not ONE at the expense of the OTHER but BOTH. God made a promise to ONE NATION according to the covenant of grace and election just as he made a promise to Abraham according to the covenatn of grace and election concerning those from ALL NATIONS.

     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    dw:

    I choose scripture that supports the Truth.
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Heb 2:16

    He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

    By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..
     
  5. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    No you do not! You hand pick proof texts to support an error while ignoring other texts that expose your eisgetical error.
     
  6. Dr. Walter

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    When challenged with exegetical evidence that you are abusing these texts (Gal. 3; Rom. 2; Rom. 9-11; Eph 2) you simply ignore the evidence and respond like a parrot just repeating your disproven error.
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    dw:

    Yes I did, you cannot receive it, I cannot help that.
     
  8. Dr. Walter

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    I do not believe your manipulation of the scriptures! You are incapable of interpreting any of your proof texts by the immediate context from which you jerk them! I have repeatedly placed your proof texts back into their original context and demonstrated you are practicing eisgesis not exegesis. Your position is nothing but half-truths and a half-truth is the worst kind of lie.
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    You are correct SBM.....good post ...absolutely correct:applause::thumbsup::applause:
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    What are you saying is in error here?
     
  11. Dr. Walter

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    The scriptures make a clean and clear distinction between the promise of God to Abraham in regard to the singular "NATION" from his own loins and the plural "NATIONS" not from his own loins which would comprise the promised seed or children of promise. They are not to be confused nor does one replace the other. Both begin as "children of flesh" and both require new birth.

    Spiritual Israel is defined in Romans 9:1-23 distinct from GENTILE CHILDREN OF GOD (Rom. 9:23-24; 11:25).

    The "church" is not spiritual Israel as the "church" has no existence previous to its own foundation and building which began with Christ as the builder in his earthly ministry and with the apostles being set "first" in the church (Mt. 16:18; Eph. 2:20; 1 Cor. 12:28). There was a spiritual Israel back in Genesis but no church (Rom. 9:9-11) as the foundation of the church was yet future and hence, the "church" and salvation cannot possibly be synonmous for that very reason.
     
  12. Martin Marprelate

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    It seems that the very verses you quote contradict you. Rom 9:23-25. '......The riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says in Hosea, "I will call them My people who were not My people.....etc."' One people of God (John 10:16), both Jew and Gentile (Eph 2:11-17). Not 'Replacement Theology' but inclusion theology and reconciliation theology.

    Steve
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Paul is applying the Hosea Prophecy unto the Call of the Gentiles, Abraham's seed in the Nations..Gen 17:5

    5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
     
  14. Iconoclast

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    dr w

    Jesus is the true israel and us in him....isa 42,49....one new man
     
  15. Dr. Walter

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    Israel as a nation is personified as God's "elect" in regard to obtaining salvation in the future and thus elect UNTO salvation (Ezek. 36:25-28). However, the term "elect" is never applied to Christ in that fashion or for that end. In direct contrast, Christ is God's "elect" and "my servant" as the one chosen to PROVIDE salvation through his servanthood for all the promised seed of Abraham, including the promised "nation" from his own loins as well as the "nations" not from his own loins (Rom. 5:16).

    In regard to salvation, the covenant of redemption, there was never at any time more than ONE Savior, ONE way of salvation, ONE gospel and therefore ONE kind of election to salvation for both Jews and Gentiles. However, the same salvation does not mean there are not two spheres of redemptive promise given to abraham and two redemptive spheres in God's purpose of redemption for mankind (Rom. 11:25).
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    dw:

    The Elect Nation was Spiritual 1 Pet 2:9


    9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    The reprobated jews could identify with the Elect Nation because of the flesh relationship they had with the Elect Israel of God.

    This is also seen here Rom 11:6-7

    6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    Obviously those that were blinded were not the elect..Because the elect obtained that which he seeketh for. That was the Elect Nation, The Remnant of the Election of Grace !
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    In understanding the atonement, that is, who Jesus Christ specifically died for, we must compare scripture with scripture. Those who are deceived by the devil believe that Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of all individuals of mankind, but thats not true, but He atoned for all of the seed of Abraham of mankind. The spiritual seed of Abraham was not confined to Israel, but a Father of Many Nations God had made Abraham Gen 17:5

    5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

    It should also be duly noted, this is when God said now you shall be called Abraham, when designating Him the Father of Many Nations, and so many today identify Abraham only with his fleshly descendants..

    Heb 2:16-17

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    Who are the seed of Abraham ? Lets look at scripture Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Also Rom 4:16

    16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    Here are the seed of Abraham and Christ brethren Matt 12:49-50

    49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

    50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    Here above Jesus is renouncing any special relationship with the ethnic Jews and identifying with the spiritual Israel..

    The seed of Abraham whom Jesus Christ Identified with are the many whom Jesus Christ came to redeem Isa 53:10-11

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    The people that He shall save ! Matt 1:21

    21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    His people here is the seed of Abraham,not just Jews but Gentiles also who belong to Him Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Now, is it only here Jews Paul is saying to " if ye be Christ's" and if one is Christ's, then are they his people as said in Matt 1:21 ?
     
  18. Dr. Walter

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    In the Old Testament, the universal spiritual kingdom of God on earth was represented by the nation of Israel (mT. 21:43-44) and the "house of God" or the "temple of God" was the AUTHORIZED VISIBLE representative of both. If you wanted to see the kingdom/rule/presence of God visibly administered, you would come to the "house of God" or "the temple of God" and there the ordinances and rule of God was made VISIBLY MANIFEST in microcosim fashion.


    Likewise, with the local visible N.T. congregational body (1 Pet. 2:5/Mt. 18:17-18). The congregational body of baptized believers is a microcosim of the spiritual kingdom of God on earth or what was represented by the "nation" of Israel in the Old Testament.

    However, the congregational body is not the spiritual kingdom of God except as a representative microcosim as the "keys of the kingdom" are given to the congregational body (Mt. 18:15-18) as the administrative body WITHIN the kingdom of God on earth. Only in this sense of ADMINISTRATIVE representation is the congregational body (1 Pet. 2:5) the spiritual kingdom and holy nation (1 Pet. 2:7-9). In this representative microcosim The world can see the SPIRITUAL kingdom of God at work in the visible ADMINISTRATION of the congregational body.

    Thus in this visible representative sense the N.T. Congregation is likened unto the Old Testament "nation" of Israel as the "nation" of Israel in the Old Testament was the visible representation of the invisible and universal spiritual kingdom of God.


    In Romans 11:1-7 Paul makes a rebuttal to those who believe that God is through with ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL due to is present rebellion against God. Paul argues that this is not the first time ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL has been in rebellion against God and yet God has not wholly forsaken them as a nation. The proof is that he has always, even in the worst times of rebellion reserved a "remnant" and then continued to claim them as his elect nation and continued to maintain the fulfillment of his promise to them yet in the future.

    So likewise, Paul argues that even NOW in this present rejection of Jesus Christ by the ETHNIC NATION OF ISRAEL God has reserved a "remnant" according to the election of Grace (v. 5).

    So likewise, Paul argues that even NOW God has only TEMPORARILY "cut off" ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL but fully intends to graft back in "again" what he cut off. He never cut off the elect remnant. He cut of ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL and will graft them in "again" in the future in order to fulfill that future promise of salvation of the WHOLE ETHNIC NATION of Israel (Rom. 11:25-28).

    God NEVER cut off the elect remnant but cut off ETHNIC ISRAEL AS A NATION and therefore it is ETHNIC ISRAEL AS A NATION that will be grafted back in "again" and this will occur at the Second Advent when "ALL ETHNIC ISRAEL AS A NATION" will be saved - born again in a single day. It is ETHNIC ISRAEL AS A NATION that is the enemy of the gospel NOW (v. 28a) and it is ETHNIC ISRAEL AS A NATION that is beloved of God in regard to ELECTION (v. 28b). The "remnant" is not the enemy of the Gospel.
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    dw

    The Spiritual Nation of Israel was in National Israel in the OT. The Nation increased and grew in the NT under the blessings of the NC. There is only one Elect Nation, that is a Spiritual Nation 1 Pet 2:9

    9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    Ps 33:12

    Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

    Abraham's physical descendants Israel in and of themselves were not the Children of God Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  20. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    Do you really think jerking texts out of their context and then just reasserting them proves your point? This is supposed to be a dialog where objections are considered and given a reasonable response not a course in how to parrot and repeat one's self.
     

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