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Featured He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, May 31, 2013.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Or "covenant", for the word signifies both; and what is intended may be called both a testament and a covenant; a testament, because it is founded in the good will and pleasure of God, and respects an inheritance bequeathed by God the Father to his children, which was confirmed and comes to them by the death of Christ the testator; and a covenant, it being a compact or agreement made by the Father with Christ, as the representative of all the elect; in which promises and blessings of all sorts are provided and secured for them in him; and is called in Scripture a covenant of life and peace, because these are things concerned in it; and is commonly by men called the covenant of grace, because it springs from the grace of God, the subject matter of it is grace, and the end of it is the glory of God's grace: now this is better than the covenant of works broken by man, and which exposes him to the curse and condemnation of the law; or than the covenant of the Levitical priesthood, by which was no perfection; and the form of administration of it under the Gospel dispensation is better than that under the law, for it is now revealed more clearly, and administered without types, shadows, and sacrifices; and the extent of its administration is larger, reaching to Gentiles as well as Jews; and besides, it is now actually ratified and confirmed by the blood of Christ, which is therefore called the blood of the everlasting covenant: and of this testament or covenant Christ is the "surety"; the word signifies one that draws nigh: Christ drew nigh to his Father in the council of peace, and undertook to be the Saviour and Redeemer of his people he substituted himself in their place and stead; he interposed between the creditor and the debtor, and became surety for the payment of the debts of the latter, and so stood engaged for them, and in their room: Christ is not the surety for the Father to his people, but for them to the Father; as to satisfy for their sins, to work out a righteousness for them, to preserve and keep them, and make them happy; which is an instance of matchless love.
    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    22. surety—ensuring in His own person the certainty of the covenant to us. This He did by becoming responsible for our guilt, by sealing the covenant with His blood, and by being openly acknowledged as our triumphant Saviour by the Father, who raised Him from the dead. Thus He is at once God's surety for man, and man's surety for God, and so Mediator between God and man (Heb 8:6)...............
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Only once passing through Paducah...but if i can i will...I think their was a Kroger whse.

    I used to actually go through on i-24 when i used to do the midwest more often...
    Scout out a truckstop where I could park the truck...and if i can i would look forward to it.

    They run me to the northwest alot....tomorrow i will go through wyoming and through most of nebraska...all on I- 80....the next day from nebraska, to the Indiana /Ohio line. the next night home....then vacation in the southland...GA. one of my daughters had her third girl on friday.
    mrs clast wants to help out....lol
     
    #42 Iconoclast, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2013
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    God bless you then.
     
  4. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Hi Icon: Thanks for your response.

     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Aren't those contraptions dangerous sometimes? LOL
     
  7. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    ROFL. Preaching from a Segway is a hoot!
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    LOL. I was just reading about him last night in a Baptist History book that I borrowed from someone. Of course I have posted almost as much about John Gill as I have about John Calvin. Not quite as much as I have on C.H.S. and A.W. Pink.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Winman

    This seems contradictory.....You say he was their mediator, then if , then not so much.

    Jesus biblically is the one mediator between God and man...but only for believers.Those who are being sanctified, those who draw near...as the text says.
     
    #49 Iconoclast, Jun 3, 2013
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  10. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I have already explained, and it is not too difficult for you.

    Jesus is the mediator for ALL men, but they must apply to Jesus while they are alive in this life. Once you die, then comes the judgment. They have passed up their opportunity to apply to Jesus as their mediator.

    What is so hard to understand?
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Either Jesus mediates for each and every person who has lived,is living or shall live --- OR He mediates only for His elect. Christ mediates for His elect ones alone. He does not mediate for the sins of those in perdition or going there.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are describing...something Potential...not actual
    He actually is not a mediator for anyone but the saved.
    ..............................surety for any unsaved
    ..............................High Priest....etc....do you see...re-read your own post.
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Exactly....scripture no where says it is potential...or we have to apply for it??

    Where would you apply? At the customer service desk,lol
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Pastor Mitchell posted this in the now closed thread....saying the point was not established.I posted more in this thread.... perhaps you could answer how the three works spoken of ,which come to completion at the cross...do not show the certainty of the statement in verse 14....

    QUOTE]He posted that in this thread first but the problem is that verse does not say what he is imposing on it. He is trying to make an inference that is not there nor is it in view. This is common in reformed theology. [/QUOTE]


    This from a previous post clarifies it....
    Okay if you want to "see it",you must follow the books revelation of the work of the Great High Priest..not only as the once for all sacrifice..but as He accomplishes redemption.

    The writer was doing it in chapter 2,and 4, when he starts to develop teaching about the priestly work and what is accomplished...not potential but actual.
    16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
    ** notice he took on actual sins plural...not just sin in general**

    -4 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    ***the teaching of the priestly work is clearly and consistently addressed to the people who are drawing near, holding fast***

    he wants to explain more.....but the people are dull of hearing....

    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

    11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

    He wants now to tie in the Covenant of Redemption, and the mediator of the Covenant,as Surety....

    15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

    16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

    17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

    18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

    20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    He links these who have draw near,come boldly to the throne of grace to Jesus as eternal High Priest ,Mediator, and Surety;

    Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

    22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


    [1.] , a “surety,” is one that undertaketh for another
    wherein he is defective, really or in reputation. Whatever that undertaking
    be, whether in words of promise, or in depositing of real security in the
    hands of an arbitrator, or by any other personal engagement of life and
    body, it respects the defect of the person for whom any one becomes a
    surety. Such an one is sponsor,

    [1.] He undertook, as the surety of the covenant, to answer for all the sins
    of those who are to be and are made partakers of the benefits of it; — that
    is, to undergo the punishment due unto their sins; to make atonement for
    them, by offering himself a propitiatory sacrifice for their expiation;
    redeeming them by the price of his blood from their state of misery and
    bondage under the law and the curse of it, Isaiah 53:4-6, 10;
    Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:6; 1 Corinthians 6:20; Romans
    3:25, 26; Hebrews 10:5-10; Romans 8:2, 3; 2 Corinthians 5:19-
    21;

    John Owen...
    Quote:
    But it simply says NOTHING about those who aren't (mainly because he indeed hasn't perfected them).
    Exactly...so where does it leave anyone else who could be described as not having an;
    Eternal High Priest
    An Once for all sacrifice
    A Surety guaranteeing the terms of the Covenant
    The One mediator

    Where does it leave the unsanctified, those who draw back, those with no surety? they are spoken of in contrast to those in Covenant who benefit from Our Lord's Work which we are told...he already accomplished it?

    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption

    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Those that are called are the sanctified,and those being sanctified;;;


    1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:


    2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    10. By—Greek, "In." So "in," and "through," occur in the same sentence, 1Pe 1:22, "Ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit." Also, 1Pe 1:5, in the Greek. The "in (fulfilment of) which will" (compare the use of in, Eph 1:6, "wherein [in which grace] He hath made us accepted, in the Beloved"), expresses the originating cause; "THROUGH the offering … of Christ," the instrumental or mediatory cause. The whole work of redemption flows from "the will" of God the Father, as the First Cause, who decreed redemption from before the foundation of the world. The "will" here (boulema) is His absolute sovereign will. His "good will" (eudokia) is a particular aspect of it.

    are sanctified—once for all, and as our permanent state (so the Greek). It is the finished work of Christ in having sanctified us (that is, having translated us from a state of unholy alienation into a state of consecration to God, having "no more conscience of sin," Heb 10:2) once for all and permanently, not the process of gradual sanctification, which is here referred to.

    This shows the contrast from 9:8-9...

    8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

    9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

    In other words God In Christ has made us perfect in Saving Union with Him.
    Having a clear conscience we can now draw near as fits subjects to offer worship.
     
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Hi guys, I have to say that it is great to see discussion of "perfection" in the Book of Hebrews. I have read the thread and would just comment that just as we see a distinction concerning positional sanctification and progressive sanctification, even so concerning "perfection" (completion) we distinguish between positional perfection (a focus of the writer of Hebrews) and progressive "perfection" (that spoken of by Paul in other epistles).

    That is the view I take, anyway, and be happy to discuss it if there are those that object.

    Here is a list from an old thread that I thought might be helpful to the conversation:


    Hebrews

    2:10-For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect (5048) through sufferings.


    5048-teleioo: from 5046; to complete, i.e. (lit.) accomplish, or (fig.) consumate (in character). Translated: consecrate, finish, fulfill, (make)perfect.


    5:9-And being made perfect (5048), he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    5:14-But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age (5046), who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.



    5046-teleios:complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); completeness. Translated: (of) full age, man, and perfect.

    6:1-Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection (5047), not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


    5047-teleiotes-(the state of) completeness (ment. or mor.). Translated perfection (ness).


    7:11-If therefore perfection (5050) were by the Levitical Priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisadec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?


    5050-teleiosis-; from 5048, (the act) completion, i.e. (of prophecy) verification, or (of expiation [to make amends for]); absolution [remission of sins].




    7:19-For the law made nothing perfect (5048), but the bringing in of a better hope did, by the which we draw nigh unto God.

    7:28-For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated (5048) for evermore.

    9:9-Which was a figure for the time present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect (5048).

    10:1-For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which were offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect (5048).

    10:14-For by one offering he hath perfected (5048) forever them that are sanctified.

    11:39-And all these, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise.
    40-God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect (5048).

    12:2-Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher (5051) of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


    5051-teleiotes-from 5048; a completer, i.e. consumater: -finisher.

    The idea of "escaping" from what Hebrews 10:14 teaches was at one point challenged, and to that I would just say that this is something that I have found to be true, yet, it is usually an "argument of exclusion" in that what the writer of Hebrews (and ultimately the Holy Spirit) teaches in Chapter Ten is ignored, and a beeline is made for Hebrews 6:1-6 and Hebrews 10:14, which most of us are familiar with as favorites of those that teach that salvation can be lost.

    But ask what Hebrews 10:14 actually means and the debate goes silent, because, as the OP has pointed out, rightfully...it means what it means.

    The idea that we are "forever being made complete" cannot, in my opinion, be made to be a reasonable view: one is either complete or not. One is either sanctified or not. Chapter Ten refers to those that brought offerings for sin, and the point is they were not made complete. If those sanctified were not themselves made complete, forever, then they fall back into the category which the "comers thereunto" (Hebrews 10:1-4) were in, that is, in need of once more offering for sin.

    We take that just one step further in considering the offering of the Body of Jesus Christ and understand that if that offering was incomplete, and that there were sins or sin which it did not completely make atonement for, then in no way can those sanctified be said to be made complete forever. It would be as temporary as the offering under the Law, but praise God He moved the writer to confirm that this is a once offered sacrifice which completely atones for sin.

    Understanding this theme of perfection will help those that teach loss of salvation to understand that the danger for the Hebrew people was abandoning the one sacrifice that makes perfect and returning to the sacrifices offered through the Law. Hebrews 10:26 becomes understandable in this context and we see the reason their "is no more offering" is that if this One Sacrifice is rejected, there is indeed no more offering for sin. In Hebrews 6:1-6 we see the writer urge those that have an infantile understanding of the ABCs of Christ found in the Old Testament (the First Principles of the Oracles of God) to "go on unto...perfection."

    In other words...be saved through understanding, not the prophecy of the salvation Messiah would bring, but by the completed work of the Cross. In other words, "You don't have to guess anymore brothers!"

    Okay, work has been crazy, but I wanted to at least try to participate in what I feel is one of the more important topics that can be discussed among brethren. This doctrine alone will help those that struggle with the false teachings presented by men that teach the Sacrifice of Christ cannot save completely, for, if they can understand these two critical passages in scripture, they will better be able to understand how these teachers also wrest other scriptures to justify their doctrine.

    God bless.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Great post,great topic'great salvation'great high priest....great. book....
     
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