Headcovering..........veil or hair?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Wiedertaufen, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen
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    In the modern times this issue has brought much controversy. Why should this issue bring so much strife? Is it not a scriptual issue that needs to be settled? Historic interpretation of these verses would tell us that they are dealing with a literal cloth veil. Only in modern times has interpretation changed on this.

    1 Corinthians 11:

    1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
    2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
    3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
    4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
    5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
    6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
    7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
    8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
    9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
    10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
    11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
    12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
    13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
    14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
    15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
    16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

    Verse two tells us that this covering is an ordinance of the church along with communion. In verse three, we see that it is to show headship or submission. This is why the headcovering is known as a headship veiling. The order of authority is God->Christ->Man->Woman. Verse ten speaks of the women having power on her head because of the angels. If this covering was hair, many lost women would have power on their heads.
    In verse 13 we are told this is a matter that we must judge in ourselves. Verse 15 tells us that the hair was given for a covering. making it sound as if there are two coverings.

    "The word cover, as employed in verses 4-7, is derived from the Greek Katakalupto and means "veil." Consequently, some Bible versions properly use here the terms veiled and unveiled. The expression, "Woman's Veiling" is therefore altogether proper." -Christian light publications

    What is everyones opinion on this matter?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    The issue is in v. 10 -- a symbol of authority. What we must ask is this: What is the 21st century symbol of authority that a woman should demonstrate that she is under. It obviously is not a veil. A veil in the 21st century does not communicate the same thing it did in the first century. The principle is the symbol of authority. What is that today?
     
  3. GrannyGumbo

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    Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

    "For the folks who say a covering is "hair", how do they explain this verse when most men "removes his hat" when praying: mealtime blessings, etc."
     
  4. Walls

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    Pastor Larry, I agree with the symbol of authority. When I began to study this out, I looked at the verses pertaining to the veil in the Bible and it seemed to correlate with a married woman.

    Today, our symbol is that of a wedding ring but has a very bad background. http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/rings.htm
     
  5. Wiedertaufen

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    The issue is in v. 10 -- a symbol of authority. What we must ask is this: What is the 21st century symbol of authority that a woman should demonstrate that she is under. It obviously is not a veil. A veil in the 21st century does not communicate the same thing it did in the first century. The principle is the symbol of authority. What is that today? </font>[/QUOTE]It communicates authority very much today. The lost world automatically sees the head veiling as a sign of a women under her husbands authority from testimonies of women who wear the headcovering in my church.
     
  6. Wiedertaufen

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    Amen, thanks for that link.
     
  7. Headcoveredlady

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    Hello Brother,
    Of course there must be an additional covering. Verse six would make no sense if it were only the hair. There has to be something to shear off in the first place.

    Doth not even nature ITSELF TEACH YOU. Nature teaches us that long hair is given to a woman for her glory. However, her glory must be covered.
    Because there are four glories:

    Christ=glory of God

    Man=glory of Christ

    Woman=glory of man

    Woman's hair=her glory

    We all know that women spend millions of dollars per year as a whole in America on haircuts, colorings, and perms. We all know that women's hair is her glory.

    But, her glory must be covered so that her glory is not showing. Only the man's glory is to show because points to Jesus Christ. It points all glory and honor to Him.

    Please sisters, cover up your glory.
     
  8. Wiedertaufen

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    Good point.
     
  9. Wiedertaufen

    Wiedertaufen
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    Thank you for bringing out that point. I was going to use it in my original post, but couldn't think of the wording.
     
  10. Headcoveredlady

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    The issue is in v. 10 -- a symbol of authority. What we must ask is this: What is the 21st century symbol of authority that a woman should demonstrate that she is under. It obviously is not a veil. A veil in the 21st century does not communicate the same thing it did in the first century. The principle is the symbol of authority. What is that today? </font>[/QUOTE]It communicates authority very much today. The lost world automatically sees the head veiling as a sign of a women under her husbands authority from testimonies of women who wear the headcovering in my church. </font>[/QUOTE]I read an article somewhere that said, "If you don't know what the headcovering means put one on and enter a room full of feminists. You will know immediately what the headcovering means."
     
  11. donnA

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    Once this week on this topic isn't enough?
    Isn't there some kind of rule or something about the same topic being on more then one forum?
     
  12. Headcoveredlady

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    Amen Granny! Even the military has this custom, although I am not sure where they get it from. But, I am thinking it probably came from when men removed their hats for prayer.

    I read somewhere that a woman pastor asked a man to remove his hat as he entered the sanctuary. I thought, "How silly, she is not even in her proper place." But, even she knew that this was still proper in church. Even if she herself was out of order.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    For those who say that the hair is not a covering for the woman, how do you explain this verse: 1 Corinthians 11:15 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

    Doesn't it seem pretty obvious that Paul was saying that hair is a covering??
     
  14. Headcoveredlady

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    For those who say that the hair is not a covering for the woman, how do you explain this verse: 1 Corinthians 11:15 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

    Doesn't it seem pretty obvious that Paul was saying that hair is a covering??
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, sir you have said it right! The hair is a covering. It is not THE covering spoken of in the preceding verses. Check the Greek.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    It communicates authority very much today. The lost world automatically sees the head veiling as a sign of a women under her husbands authority from testimonies of women who wear the headcovering in my church. </font>[/QUOTE]In modern American culture today, a veil does not indicate submission. It is looked at as backwards and old-fashioned. It is not looked at the same way. I don't mean that to be offensive to any veil-wearing women here. But wearing a veil today communicates something entirely different than submission to authority.

    If you doubt me, just go ask people in the mall or in a store what they think when they see a woman wearing a veil. Then report back to us.
     
  16. donnA

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    Just where in this country is this true? Because I haven't seen it. No one I have ever nown who was an unbeleiver, or even me when Iw as an unbeleiver thought anyone with their hair covered was submissive to their husbands.


    [qupte] Doth not even nature ITSELF TEACH YOU. Nature teaches us that long hair is given to a woman for her glory. However, her glory must be covered.
    [/quote]

    I have asked before and got no answer, where in nature does this mean?

    You can not interpet scripture based on the world.


    Just because the bible doesn't seem to make sence to some does not mean we are all confused.
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    So a man is to show off his wife??? Because that brings honor and glory to Christ?? I am not sure you are making sense here.

    The point of 1 Cor 11 is about authority. A man is subject to Christ; the woman is subject to the man. The woman is to have a sign of authority. That is the point. The veil is a cultural thing, not an eternal thing.

    Please sisters, cover up your glory. [/QB][/QUOTE]
     
  18. donnA

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    you know what, I think I just might do this. I'll let you know if I do. Speaking to strangers first is so hard for me I may chicken out too.
     
  19. Headcoveredlady

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    It communicates authority very much today. The lost world automatically sees the head veiling as a sign of a women under her husbands authority from testimonies of women who wear the headcovering in my church. </font>[/QUOTE]In modern American culture today, a veil does not indicate submission. It is looked at as backwards and old-fashioned. It is not looked at the same way. I don't mean that to be offensive to any veil-wearing women here. But wearing a veil today communicates something entirely different than submission to authority.

    If you doubt me, just go ask people in the mall or in a store what they think when they see a woman wearing a veil. Then report back to us.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Those sisters who veil don't go by modern culture when choosing how to obey God. Modern culture tells women to dress like harlots and chop off their glory.

    That is interesting that you have said that as every person that has ever asked about my headcovering knew it was for "religous" reasons. I even had a male doctor ask me to talk to his wife, because she was not in her place.

    Also, the ones who get the most mad are women. Women get irate about the covering. Read some of the past threads on headcovering here.

    If you knew a Christian lady who veiled you could ask her who her biggest critics are on this issue and you will most likely find out it is the women that are most opposed to the headship veiling.

    For me personally since veiling the men have been most congenial and gentlemanly towards me, while the some ladies even step away from me. I am talking about "conservative" women in homeschooling groups.
     
  20. GrannyGumbo

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    Once this week on this topic isn't enough? Isn't there some kind of rule or something about the same topic being on more then one forum?

    "Sis.donnA, p l e a s e ~with all the "junk" being written, esp. about that ungodly "super toilet-bowl",(complete with porno pics), can't these folks have a place-of-peace to talk about something they feel is needful? I just don't understand".
     

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