Healings Today

Tam, No matter who gives you Scripture, and how much Scriptural evidence you are given it seems that you will reject it any way. So what is the use. But to satisfy you, here is Scripture:

Acts 5:16 And there also came together the multitudes from the cities round about Jerusalem, bring sick folk, and them that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Tam, Is there anyone alive today that has this power? I will answer the question for you. NO!
The gift has ceased, along with tongues.
DHK

 

Ooooooh realy? I beg to differ DHK..... there is someone alive today that can heal unless you forgot?

Jesus is the same yesterday to day and forever (Heb 13:8) What He did back 2000 years ago He can do today!
.......when we get saved we invite Jesus to come and live in out hearts.... and when Jesus comes and lives in us when we belive on Him (*John 14:9-21) Jesus says he that belives on Him the works that He does shall the ones that belive on Him do also, and greater also because He goes unto His Father(theres alot more just read it).......... In John 15:7 Jesus said if we abide in Him, and His words abide in us, we can ask what we will and it shall be done unto us. Well? Who sets the limits on healing? I seen too much to say that healings don't happen the same way as they did back 2000 years ago.

 

Hummmm the board must have another glitch? It said something about a "flood control" and to reload again?

 

I haven't forgotten Jesus, music4Him. Jesus is God, who sits at the right hand of the throne of God. I said, Is there "any one" referring to any man, (member of the human race still on earth) that can do these things. Let's use a little common sense here, please. We all acknowledge the omnipotence of God.
DHK

 

Welcome back Tam!

Music4Him

 

If the "gifts of healing" have ceassed, what if ONE person comes to be annointed with oil and is prayed for and healed, wouldn't you say that all was healed and the "gifts of healing" still exists?

If not, how would you classify this operation of the Spirit of God?

BTW, tongues haven't ceased!

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New.ch11.htm

MEE

 

If the "gifts of healing" have ceassed, what if ONE person comes to be annointed with oil and is prayed for and healed, wouldn't you say that all was healed and the "gifts of healing" still exists?</font>[/QUOTE]No, MEE, I would say:
1. That you are straining at a gnat, and
2. That the person healed was healed in answer to prayer, not with the "gift of healing," which, as demonstrated, has ceased.

As an answer of prayer. Christ promised to answer prayer:
John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Actually they have. What goes on today in the name of tongues is neither tongues (actual foreign languages), nor is it Scriptural. It is cheap imitation of the real thing.
DHK

 

I see that DHK and MEE have moved on to the gift of healing...I'm curious what topic will be next?

 

If the "gifts of healing" have ceassed, what if ONE person comes to be annointed with oil and is prayed for and healed, wouldn't you say that all was healed and the "gifts of healing" still exists?

If not, how would you classify this operation of the Spirit of God?

BTW, tongues haven't ceased!

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New.ch11.htm

MEE </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you Mee.
I read in Jack Deeres Book "Surprised by the Spirit" that if you took a new Christian and isolated him/her with nothing but a Bible they would never come up with the cessationist teadching that is being preached in some circles.

 

If the "gifts of healing" have ceassed, what if ONE person comes to be annointed with oil and is prayed for and healed, wouldn't you say that all was healed and the "gifts of healing" still exists?

If not, how would you classify this operation of the Spirit of God?

BTW, tongues haven't ceased!

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New.ch11.htm

MEE </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you Mee.
I read in Jack Deeres Book "Surprised by the Spirit" that if you took a new Christian and isolated him/her with nothing but a Bible they would never come up with the cessationist teaching that is being preached in some circles. </font>[/QUOTE] atestring Its like that song Carmen sings....this is my bible... I am what it says I am... I have what it says I have and I'll do what it says I'll do. It is the Word of God.

 

I'm no fan of Carmen for various reasons. I find it interesting that Carmen uses the first person singular six times in one sentence when it took Lucifer two verses to show his pride the same way by repeating the same pronoun five times.

Isaiah 14:13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
DHK

 

You sure have been picking on me? Seems like nothing I post agrees with you DHK?

Well I thought I was using common sence here. I don't put Him on a shelf DHK, He's in my heart where I invited Him to live. I also ackknowledge the omnipotence (having unlimited power and or authority)of God, He is also omnipresent (present in all places at the same time), and omniscient (knowing all things). Knowing all this, I just get tired of people putting a limit on what God can do. Jesus healed different people different ways, but just the same people still got healed.

What in the world are you trying to say there???? That Carmens song is scripturally wrong or it of the devil? I know it is somewhat peppy music..... So I guess we better not sing Standing on the Promises anymore either....because to me thats whats Carman is talking about when he says "he has what the bible says he has" (we do still have the bible promises don't we? i.e. that 70's AD thingy?). Or what about the part "I am what it(the bible) says I am"???? The bible says I am redeemed, bought by the blood of Jesus, by His stripes we are healed! What about the part "I'll do what it(the Bible)says I'll do"......Mark 12:30-31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: and love thy neighbor as thyself.
BTW, In the "This is my Bible" song it also says....when I'm lost and gone astray, it helps me find my way. When I quote it I will see the devil has to flee. Well you tell me what is so wrong with my bible?

(((Hugs))))
Music4Him

Hey ChurchBoy looks like maybe the topic might be songs next?

 

Atestring wrote:
""I read in Jack Deeres Book "Surprised by the Spirit" that if you took a new Christian and isolated him/her with nothing but a Bible they would never come up with the cessationist teadching that is being preached in some circles.""

A person can say anything they want. This does not qualify as any kind of argument. It is a simple opinion and nothing more.

Carol, atestring, M4H, You three speak in tongues and so I have a challange for you. In the next couple days find a person who does not speak English well. I am sure you can find a spanish speaking person or chinese, etc... Share the gospel with them in their language. Just go for it and see what happens. In the early church those tongue speakers could do this. You should be able to exercise your tongues gift as easy as a preacher exercises his gift. I am not being a wise guy, so please don't be offended, I just think the time for talking is over and the time action is now here. Please let me know how the challange goes.

In Christ,
Brian

 

Briguy,

It is written: thou shall not tempt the LORD thy God.

Working for Jesus,

Tam,

 

Hi Tam, I kind of thought my challange would be taken in the wrong way. It is not tempting or testing God to use a gift that He has given. A person who has the spirtual gift of Speaking in Tongues can do what I asked as evidenced by the early church. Thanks for your post!

In Christ,
Brian

 

Your point is a red herring. No one here doubts the ability of God to heal. Why would they? God heals, and still does today. But the gift of healing, as it operated in the first century has ceased. Is there any around that can heal ALL that come to him. The obvious answer is no. Your game of semantics (using Jesus as "anyone") is pathetic. I think that you have enough understanding of the English language to comprehend the question being asked.

I don't usually post on this subject in this forum, but rather in the music forum. I'll post it here this once. But if the subject turns to music it will have to be moved to the music forum.

cARMAN

DHK

 

Ok DHK maybe we are on the same page just not in the same paragragh. I however don't think that I am trying to get off the subject or trying to confuse (i.e. your "red herring" remark") anyone.

quote by DHK:
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Your point is a red herring. No one here doubts the ability of God to heal. Why would they? God heals, and still does today. But the gift of healing, as it operated in the first century has ceased. Is there any around that can heal ALL that come to him. The obvious answer is no. Your game of semantics (using Jesus as "anyone") is pathetic. I think that you have enough understanding of the English language to comprehend the question being asked.
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Music4Him is saying that yahoo we agree! God is and has always been the healer. What God did in Old Testament times (and the New Testament times for that matter) He still does today! When you say that healing don't happen like it did in the 1st century...to me (the way I am taking it) you are saying God doesn't operate like that....its like you are putting a leash on what the Lord can do. How do you think men like Paul, Peter,....ect healed anyone? They healed people with Holy Ghost working through them, in Jesus name, giving the glory to God because He is the one who accually healed the people. Some people get this confused. They think that men themselfs healed....this is wrong thinking! If a man says to me, "I healed this person", (like some do today) you better run the other direction! To me, thats the kind of false prophets/teachers that are mentioned in the NT bible talks about (IMOHO the ones who will do all kinds of signs and wonders and preach money/prosperity, health and pleasures, but don't preach the salvation message). If I go to a church and they have signs and wonders with the lame walking and the dumb talking and the blind eyes being opened, but if they don't preach about the healing blood of Jesus.....if they don't tell others about the salvation Jesus offers....or don't preach about the resurection power of God.....then "run Forest run"!!!!!

Your game of semantics (using Jesus as "anyone") is pathetic.

I ain't playing no word games with you and I don't need your pity.
But I tell you who needs pity....people who are preached to (and don't read their bibles for themselfs and learn of Jesus) and end up putting Jesus in a box and so high up on a shelf that they feel like they are unable and/or unworthy to reach out to Him....then they miss all the blessings and benifits that the word promises them. Like some people/doctrins I have been aquainted with in the past. (exampleWhen my mother in law had a sore toe and I asked her if she would like me to pray for her? Her reply was no, she said God is too busy to worry about her toe! So she limped around and dealt with the pain.) I don't want to seem selfish, but I want a Jesus who is real and alive and resurected, with healing in His wings and living in me and praise God! When I got saved He didn't let me down! But I don't like it when people set limits or say that God don't work like He used to. He was the same in the OT healing people as He did in the NT as He does today....different ways but still the same!


Some examples would be in the OT when Moses made the brass serpent for the people to look on be healed with the snake bites. In the NT with Jesus the woman with the issue of blood reached out to touch the hem of Jesus's garment and was healed... He told her that her faith made her whole. Also after Jesus was resurected and asended to heaven...when Paul preached the gospel and the man at Lystra heard and Paul precived he had faith to be healed told him to stand and he was healed.
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Just another thing that I have noticed while doing some studies on this healing subject.
In Acts 10:34-43 especially verse 38 Peter says;
How God anoited Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.
These are the words of Peter so I assume he should know what he was talking about. In Matthew Mary is told that the child concived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Then later Jesus spoke of sending a comforter (the Holy Ghost) before he was crucified in the book of John. Paul speaks of the Holy Ghost in 1 Cor. 12, that is the same Spirit right?

 

So far so good. We agree in basic principle up to this point.

I definitely agree that the message has to be there. But I am very skeptical about a church that claims to have "signs and wonders" such as the lame walking, the blind seeing, the dumb talking, etc. Look around you. Peter Popoff claims this on a regular basis. So does Benny Hinn. Are we so naive to believe their antics when they have been proven to be frauds over and over again. There is no power of the Holy Spirit there. Popoff receives communication from his wife about individuals in the audience from pre-filled forms. He "knows" ahead of time: symptoms, characteristics, etc. People with real disabilities like parapalegics in wheelchairs never get through to Benny Hinn. It is impossible for Benny Hinn to heal them and he knows it.
We have a couple of people confined to wheelchairs in our church, and they have come to the realization in their lives that it is not God's will to heal every one, and it is not God's will to heal them. God has a different purpose for them in their lives. It was never God's purpose for all people to be healed. This is a misconception of the Charismatics.
Jesus could and did heal all that came to him. It was a "work" or sign that He did to demonstrate his deity.
The Apostles at certain times in their ministry could heal all that came to them (but not all the time like Jesus could). This was a sign (a wonder). It verified to those around that they were apostles, and that the message of the gospel was authentic. We don't need to authenticate the gospel message with signs and wonders any more. We have the completed Word of God, and that is all we need.
Jesus said: An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.

God still heals. He heals according to his will. He heals as answers to prayer not by according to the gift of healing. The gift has ceased. He doesn't heal all the time. He heals according to His will; it is not always His will to heal.

I agree with most of what you said, especially with your example concerning your mother in law. We need to pray. We need to pray for healing. But we also need to be realistic, and realize, like Paul, that God also says: "My grace is sufficient for you." And therefore we, like Paul must be ready to have his attitude:

2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
--Because the Lord does not always heal.

Those events all happened. They all happened for a purpose. Jesus also healed many people that had no faith at all. Nine out of ten lepers never came back to thank him. Of the 5,000 that were miraculously fed, most just followed him because he fed them, and because of the miracles that he did. They were not true believers. Jesus "knew" their hearts. Miracles don't save people; the gospel does.

Yes, the Holy Spirit remains the same. He is the same person of the Triune Godhead from Genesis chapter one, as he is in Revelation chapter 22. He never changes. But God works in different ways in different periods of history. He tells us so in the Book of Hebrews:

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In the Old Testament God spoke to his people, the nation of Israel, through the prophets in different ways: visions, dreams, audibly, etc.
Nowadays, He speaks to us through His Son, Jesus Christ, who is revealed to us through the Word of God.
We don't need signs; we need the Word of God.
Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
DHK

 

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him, But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Hi, I am new so hope not to offend in my first post. I think we are talking about healing and why it seems that it is remote from us in the USA, yet still seems to operate in the mission field. In the USA we have healing and the gift of healing active in the body of Christ but we are so spoiled in our faith by having a lap full of Bible that we never take into our heart and easy manmade solutions that we have become lukewarm in turning to God and the Holy Bible before we turn to the bottle of aspirin. (Rev 3:14-21) Now I think that in this hour we have a critical rise in false gifts as seen in the Charismatic Renewal and they are sensual and human glorifying with the focus on the ‘gift’ and the ‘gifted’ this will become stronger and stronger till our Lord Jesus Christ returns. But we must be faithful to what the Holy Bible has told us, and hold our ground till His return. So my question would be as you all seem to hold to the all are healed or there is no healing gift then I ask; Is Jesus Christ in your view a false teacher from the Matthew 13:57-58 quote? Or could it be that you have not looked to the Father and asked in Jesus Name why healing is not taking place in my life today?

 

Hi Ken, good to have you on this thread. Your position is close to a few others on this board and I understand where you are coming from. Verses have to be looked at very closely and often we miss obvious points. As for Matt. 13:57-58, remember who Jesus is. He is God, "if you have seen me you have seen the father". All things are under His command, thus He could and can heal and do miracles anytime. He simply choose not to in M.13 because the people lacked belief and faith. Jesus chose not to do things in their midst though He could have if he wanted to.

Second point, I ask anyone to show me where any gifts operate any different then any other gifts. A preacher preaches because he has a gift to preach, an administrator administares because he is gifted to do so, a helper helps, etc... ALL GIFTS OPERATE THE SAME. I keep saying this and no one comments or challanges me. What is the nature of a gift? It is something fully given from one person to another. It is no longer owned by the giver, it fully belongs to the givee (is that a word). Our Spiritual Gifts are fully controlled by us. They are in us and part of us and operated by us. To say that the gifts of healing or miracles are exceptions to this defies the Bible and plain logic. When Peter, Paul or anyone else operated their gift of healing they healed all who came to them. They would only use the actual gift when the "body" could be edified, which a spiritual gift must be used for according to 1 cor. 12:7. Therefore it may be that those who had the gift prayed for healings and miracles that didn't happen because in those cases God decided. When they operated their gift they decided who was healed or raised from the dead. I hope this is coming across with a charitable tone as it is intended in that light. I ask M4H or anyone else to explain what a "gift" is if it is not something fully given from one person to another. Why isn't scripture calling these "gifts" something like "periodic powers" if they are not at our disposal 100% of the time.

Ken, I hope I didn't scare you off, thanks for your post!!

In Love and Truth,
Brian