Health Care for America Now

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Jul 9, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting.

    Statement of Common Purpose


    We believe that all of us benefit from healthy communities, where we all have access to affordable, quality health care from a provider of our choice, at the time we need it, at a cost we can afford. Our mutual goal is affordable, quality health care for everyone in America and for our nation.

    Our current health care system in America is not affordable for families, businesses or government. We need an American solution to secure our families’ health and a healthy economy. All of us, individuals, employers and government have a shared responsibility to realize comprehensive reforms in our health care system.

    Our government’s responsibility is to guarantee quality affordable health care for everyone in America and it must play a central role in regulating, financing, and providing health coverage by establishing:


    • A truly inclusive and accessible health care system in which no one is left out.

    • A choice of a private insurance plan, including keeping the insurance you have if you like it, or a public insurance plan without a private insurer middleman that guarantees affordable coverage.

    • A standard for health benefits that covers what people need to keep healthy and to be treated when they are ill. Health care benefits should cover all necessary care including preventative services and treatment needed by those with serious and chronic diseases and conditions.

    • Health care coverage with out-of-pocket costs including premiums, co-pays and deductibles that are based on a family’s ability to pay for health care and without limits on payments for covered services.

    • Equity in health care access, treatment, research and resources to people and communities of color, resulting in the elimination of racial disparities in health outcomes and real improvement in health and life expectancy for all.

    • Health coverage through the largest possible pools in order to achieve affordable, quality coverage for the entire population and to share risk fairly.

    • A watchdog role on all plans, to assure that risk is fairly spread among all health care payers and that insurers do not turn people away, raise rates or drop coverage based on a person’s health history or wrongly delay or deny care.

    • A choice of doctors, health providers and public and private plans, without gaps in coverage or access and a delivery system that meets the needs of at-risk populations.

    • Affordable and predictable health costs to businesses and employers. To the extent that employers contribute to the cost of health coverage, those payments should be related to employee wages rather than on a per-employee basis.

    • Effective cost controls that promote quality, lower administrative costs and long term financial sustainability, including: standard claims forms, secure electronic medical records, using the public’s purchasing power to instill greater reliance on evidence-based protocols and lower drug and device prices, better management and treatment of chronic diseases and a public role in deciding where money is invested in health care.
    - http://healthcareforamericanow.org/site/content/statement_of_common_purpose
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    My only comment is my trailer/signature which will show up shortly:
     
  3. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    294
    That's the fallacy in the whole thing, Ed.

    The government not only is incapable of administering the plan, they'll likely make things worse.

    Government controlled pricing of medical services is one of the main causes of the huge increases in both the cost of insurance and medical services for those not covered by medicare.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    "Likely" implies some doubt. There is none.
     
  5. dragonfly

    dragonfly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is now time for universal health care for all Americans. I look forward to seeing what President Obama will do to bring this to pass.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm thinking about buying my own doctor. I'll find a doctoral student who needs money to go to school the next 8 years or so. They have to doctor me free anytime I want it - they can have a job for making money, but I get in every time I want to go in.

    /Ed works on Medacare interconnent .... /
     
  7. Andre

    Andre
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    I share your position (even though I am not an American). The scriptures clearly teach that Jesus is Lord of all - including the institutions of government. And the kingdom of God values that Jesus espoused clearly entail care for the "least of these". Is Jesus not interested in having his authority made manifest in the institutions of government? Is Jesus not really lord of the public domain, but rather only lord of our "inner lives" (as if the "inner life" - "public world" distinction were even workable)?

    No. We need to claim Jesus' kingship over it all. And that means advocating for universal healthcare (among other things).

    It is helpful to remember the less than honourable motives of many who argue for "kicking God out of government". What seems to be a reasonable argument on the surface can often mask a power grab - with God out of the way, "now we can make some real money". And when government does not enshrine Biblical values, who do you think are the first to lose out? The poor and the helpless, of course - the very ones we are called to minister to.
     
  8. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Lordship of Jesus demands universal healthcare? That's a brand new one for me.

    That we are called upon to care for the least of these and to do good to all men is taught in Scripture, but to make the jump from caring for the poor to the gov't taking over health care makes the Grand Canyon look like a ditch.

    By the way, we have lots of Canadians here in florida during the winter. I have yet to hear one talk about how wonderful the Canadian gov't health care system is.
     
  9. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Andre, Dragonfly,
    whom do you serve?
    If God, then serve him!
    If man (and his government), then serve him!
    The Kingdom of God is not ruled by any man: Nor does any government serve the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is ruled by God within the hearts of men.

    It is blasphemy to call governments as serving God which promote research into germ warfare, genetic engineering which corrupts the gene pool of the plants and animals, unjust wars and killing of innocent people, unjust courts, promotion of sin calling sin 'freedom' (i.e. teaching/ approving/ normalizing homosexuality or sexuality outside of marriage, or abortions), etc.

    The Kingdom of God is not dependant on robbery, taxes, or complusory taking from the people.

    The rule of God upon this earth returns with the return of Jesus Christ: Til then, governments persue their more or less corrupted intents ........mirroring the evil which is inside the unregenerated heart. And people who trust and look to government for the solutions of their problems and ills...... ARE WORSHIPPING A FALSE GOD.
     
    #9 windcatcher, Jul 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2008
  10. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    why stop at healthcare, free food for all free housing for all free television for all - oh forgot we are already getting there anyway so what's the big deal? :laugh:

    Our state ads thousands to the free health, free food and near free housing - we are well on our way to a full nanny, communistic state :thumbs:
     
  11. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Andre and Dragonfly, et. al,
    What confidence in government funded health care remains after you read the following:
    an excert from free on line ebook.....HERE The list continues in next post.
     
  12. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    continued from previous post:
    From Here click on link [Nazis/CIA/MK-ULTRA]
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    National Health Care is just plain poor stewardship which s clearly unbiblical.
     
  14. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,242
    Likes Received:
    2
    That's funny. I hear the same thing from my friends who come down here.
     
  15. Andre

    Andre
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Frankly, this may be due to their failure to embrace the true spirit of the gospel - placing the needs of others first. It is entirely possible that obedience to the gospel imperative to advocate for the enshrinement of Kingdom values in law - in this case universal health care - means that the level of care will go down for some in order to ensure all get a minimum level of care.

    Such can be the price to pay for obedience.
     
  16. Andre

    Andre
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    If we take the gospel message seriously, we really have no choice - we must advocate for universal health care. We know from Jesus' own mouth that all authority on earth has been given to Him. So that must include the institutions of government. And Christians are obliged to advocate for enacting this authority of our Lord - that is one of the main missions of the church. Look at the trouble Paul got in for declaring a "new King". We also know that material care for all is indeed a Kingdom of God value. Do I need to provide the texts for this? I hope not.

    To suggest that universal health care is not a Christian imperative is to suggest that we strip Jesus of his Lordship over all earthly institutions. It is to say "we'll order our personal lives by the gospel, but give up the institutions that govern our world to another set of values."
     
  17. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    294
    You'll just have to excuse the Canadians.

    They're so used to being taken care of by the state and hiding in the shadow of the U.S. that they don't understand how the real world operates.

    Being so cared for and protected evidently has also warped their view of scripture so badly that they think the Bible advocates forced socialism, (IOW stealing from one to give to others.) if Andre is any example.
     
    #17 carpro, Jul 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2008
  18. Andre

    Andre
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    What, precisely is your Biblical argument, other than a simple unsubstantiated denial of mine? If you are right in your take on what the Scriptures teach, then by all means educate us all.

    Is Jesus not lord of all earthly institutions?

    Is care for the least of these not a Kingdom of God value?

    Do you think that Jesus has been given "all authority on earth" except for authority over - you know - how we actually run the world?

    As to whether the Scriptures support "stealing from one to give to others" - as you put it, consider this from Leviticus 25:

    'If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. 26 If, however, a man has no one to redeem it for him but he himself prospers and acquires sufficient means to redeem it, 27 he is to determine the value for the years since he sold it and refund the balance to the man to whom he sold it; he can then go back to his own property. 28 But if he does not acquire the means to repay him, what he sold will remain in the possession of the buyer until the Year of Jubilee. It will be returned in the Jubilee, and he can then go back to his property

    A clear case of legally mandated "taking from man A and giving to man B".
     
    #18 Andre, Jul 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2008
  19. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's loaded with forced redistribution of wealth. It proclaims strong racial and economic preferences. It would become yet another vote for favors plan. It would breed dependency upon government. It would fund yet another large government agency staffed with people who think they know what's best for everyone and anyone. It would be a lot like government schools. Years ago it would have been dismissed as socialized medicine but today universal health care sounds so much more friendly.
     
  20. Andre

    Andre
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is clear Biblical precedent for "forced" redistirbution of wealth - the post from Leviticus 25 about the Jubilee Law.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...