Health Care for America Now

KenH · Jul 9, 2008

Interesting.

Statement of Common Purpose

We believe that all of us benefit from healthy communities, where we all have access to affordable, quality health care from a provider of our choice, at the time we need it, at a cost we can afford. Our mutual goal is affordable, quality health care for everyone in America and for our nation.

Our current health care system in America is not affordable for families, businesses or government. We need an American solution to secure our families’ health and a healthy economy. All of us, individuals, employers and government have a shared responsibility to realize comprehensive reforms in our health care system.

Our government’s responsibility is to guarantee quality affordable health care for everyone in America and it must play a central role in regulating, financing, and providing health coverage by establishing:

A truly inclusive and accessible health care system in which no one is left out.

A choice of a private insurance plan, including keeping the insurance you have if you like it, or a public insurance plan without a private insurer middleman that guarantees affordable coverage.

A standard for health benefits that covers what people need to keep healthy and to be treated when they are ill. Health care benefits should cover all necessary care including preventative services and treatment needed by those with serious and chronic diseases and conditions.

Health care coverage with out-of-pocket costs including premiums, co-pays and deductibles that are based on a family’s ability to pay for health care and without limits on payments for covered services.

Equity in health care access, treatment, research and resources to people and communities of color, resulting in the elimination of racial disparities in health outcomes and real improvement in health and life expectancy for all.

Health coverage through the largest possible pools in order to achieve affordable, quality coverage for the entire population and to share risk fairly.

A watchdog role on all plans, to assure that risk is fairly spread among all health care payers and that insurers do not turn people away, raise rates or drop coverage based on a person’s health history or wrongly delay or deny care.

A choice of doctors, health providers and public and private plans, without gaps in coverage or access and a delivery system that meets the needs of at-risk populations.

Affordable and predictable health costs to businesses and employers. To the extent that employers contribute to the cost of health coverage, those payments should be related to employee wages rather than on a per-employee basis.

Effective cost controls that promote quality, lower administrative costs and long term financial sustainability, including: standard claims forms, secure electronic medical records, using the public’s purchasing power to instill greater reliance on evidence-based protocols and lower drug and device prices, better management and treatment of chronic diseases and a public role in deciding where money is invested in health care.

- http://healthcareforamericanow.org/site/content/statement_of_common_purpose

Ed Edwards · Jul 9, 2008

My only comment is my trailer/signature which will show up shortly:

carpro · Jul 9, 2008

That's the fallacy in the whole thing, Ed.

The government not only is incapable of administering the plan, they'll likely make things worse.

Government controlled pricing of medical services is one of the main causes of the huge increases in both the cost of insurance and medical services for those not covered by medicare.

Revmitchell · Jul 10, 2008

carpro said:

The government not only is incapable of administering the plan, they'll likely make things worse.
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"Likely" implies some doubt. There is none.

dragonfly · Jul 10, 2008

It is now time for universal health care for all Americans. I look forward to seeing what President Obama will do to bring this to pass.

Ed Edwards · Jul 10, 2008

I'm thinking about buying my own doctor. I'll find a doctoral student who needs money to go to school the next 8 years or so. They have to doctor me free anytime I want it - they can have a job for making money, but I get in every time I want to go in.

/Ed works on Medacare interconnent .... /

Andre · Jul 10, 2008

dragonfly said:

It is now time for universal health care for all Americans. I look forward to seeing what President Obama will do to bring this to pass.
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I share your position (even though I am not an American). The scriptures clearly teach that Jesus is Lord of all - including the institutions of government. And the kingdom of God values that Jesus espoused clearly entail care for the "least of these". Is Jesus not interested in having his authority made manifest in the institutions of government? Is Jesus not really lord of the public domain, but rather only lord of our "inner lives" (as if the "inner life" - "public world" distinction were even workable)?

No. We need to claim Jesus' kingship over it all. And that means advocating for universal healthcare (among other things).

It is helpful to remember the less than honourable motives of many who argue for "kicking God out of government". What seems to be a reasonable argument on the surface can often mask a power grab - with God out of the way, "now we can make some real money". And when government does not enshrine Biblical values, who do you think are the first to lose out? The poor and the helpless, of course - the very ones we are called to minister to.

Tom Bryant · Jul 10, 2008

The Lordship of Jesus demands universal healthcare? That's a brand new one for me.

That we are called upon to care for the least of these and to do good to all men is taught in Scripture, but to make the jump from caring for the poor to the gov't taking over health care makes the Grand Canyon look like a ditch.

By the way, we have lots of Canadians here in florida during the winter. I have yet to hear one talk about how wonderful the Canadian gov't health care system is.

windcatcher · Jul 10, 2008

Andre, Dragonfly,
whom do you serve?
If God, then serve him!
If man (and his government), then serve him!
The Kingdom of God is not ruled by any man: Nor does any government serve the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is ruled by God within the hearts of men.

It is blasphemy to call governments as serving God which promote research into germ warfare, genetic engineering which corrupts the gene pool of the plants and animals, unjust wars and killing of innocent people, unjust courts, promotion of sin calling sin 'freedom' (i.e. teaching/ approving/ normalizing homosexuality or sexuality outside of marriage, or abortions), etc.

The Kingdom of God is not dependant on robbery, taxes, or complusory taking from the people.

The rule of God upon this earth returns with the return of Jesus Christ: Til then, governments persue their more or less corrupted intents ........mirroring the evil which is inside the unregenerated heart. And people who trust and look to government for the solutions of their problems and ills...... ARE WORSHIPPING A FALSE GOD.

exscentric · Jul 10, 2008

why stop at healthcare, free food for all free housing for all free television for all - oh forgot we are already getting there anyway so what's the big deal? :laugh:

Our state ads thousands to the free health, free food and near free housing - we are well on our way to a full nanny, communistic state :thumbs:

windcatcher · Jul 10, 2008

Andre and Dragonfly, et. al,
What confidence in government funded health care remains after you read the following:

A History of Experimentation on U.S. Citizens
(1931) Mr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.

(1932)The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

(1935) The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations.

(1940) Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

(1942) Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

(1943) In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.
(1944) U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

(1945) Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.

(1945) Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC)This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

(1946) Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.

(1947) Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.

(1947) The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

(1950) Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.

(1950) In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city could be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Francisco. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.

(1951) Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.

(1953) U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

(1953) Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.

(1953) CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

(1955) The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.

(1955) Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.

(1956) U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

(1958) LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

(1960) The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

(1965) CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

(1965) Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Vietnam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

(1966) CIA initiates Project MK OFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

(1966) U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop light bulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

(1967) CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MK NAOMI, successor to MK ULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

(1968) CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

(1969) Mr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

(1970) Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

(1970) United States intensifies its development of ethnic weapons (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

(1975) The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retro virologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

(1977) Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

(1978) Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

(1981) First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.

(1985) According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

(1986) According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

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an excert from free on line ebook.....HERE The list continues in next post.

windcatcher · Jul 10, 2008

continued from previous post:

(1986) A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

(1987) Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

(1990) More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

(1994) With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.

(1994) Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psycho chemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War.

(1995) U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on
biological warfare research.

(1995) Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX. and Boca Raton, Fl. and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

(1996) Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.

(1997) Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bio weapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.
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From Here click on link [Nazis/CIA/MK-ULTRA]

Revmitchell · Jul 10, 2008

National Health Care is just plain poor stewardship which s clearly unbiblical.

Bro. Curtis · Jul 10, 2008

Tom Bryant said:

The Lordship of Jesus demands universal healthcare? That's a brand new one for me.

That we are called upon to care for the least of these and to do good to all men is taught in Scripture, but to make the jump from caring for the poor to the gov't taking over health care makes the Grand Canyon look like a ditch.

By the way, we have lots of Canadians here in florida during the winter. I have yet to hear one talk about how wonderful the Canadian gov't health care system is.
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That's funny. I hear the same thing from my friends who come down here.

Andre · Jul 10, 2008

Tom Bryant said:

By the way, we have lots of Canadians here in florida during the winter. I have yet to hear one talk about how wonderful the Canadian gov't health care system is.
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Frankly, this may be due to their failure to embrace the true spirit of the gospel - placing the needs of others first. It is entirely possible that obedience to the gospel imperative to advocate for the enshrinement of Kingdom values in law - in this case universal health care - means that the level of care will go down for some in order to ensure all get a minimum level of care.

Such can be the price to pay for obedience.

Andre · Jul 10, 2008

If we take the gospel message seriously, we really have no choice - we must advocate for universal health care. We know from Jesus' own mouth that all authority on earth has been given to Him. So that must include the institutions of government. And Christians are obliged to advocate for enacting this authority of our Lord - that is one of the main missions of the church. Look at the trouble Paul got in for declaring a "new King". We also know that material care for all is indeed a Kingdom of God value. Do I need to provide the texts for this? I hope not.

To suggest that universal health care is not a Christian imperative is to suggest that we strip Jesus of his Lordship over all earthly institutions. It is to say "we'll order our personal lives by the gospel, but give up the institutions that govern our world to another set of values."

carpro · Jul 10, 2008

Tom Bryant said:

The Lordship of Jesus demands universal healthcare? That's a brand new one for me.

That we are called upon to care for the least of these and to do good to all men is taught in Scripture, but to make the jump from caring for the poor to the gov't taking over health care makes the Grand Canyon look like a ditch.

By the way, we have lots of Canadians here in florida during the winter. I have yet to hear one talk about how wonderful the Canadian gov't health care system is.
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You'll just have to excuse the Canadians.

They're so used to being taken care of by the state and hiding in the shadow of the U.S. that they don't understand how the real world operates.

Being so cared for and protected evidently has also warped their view of scripture so badly that they think the Bible advocates forced socialism, (IOW stealing from one to give to others.) if Andre is any example.

Andre · Jul 10, 2008

carpro said:

You'll just have to excuse the Canadians.

They're so used to being taken care of by the state and hiding in the shadow of the U.S. that they don't understand how the real world operates.

Being so cared for and protected evidently has also warped their view of scripture so badly that they think the Bible advocates forced socialism, (IOW stealing from one to give to others.) if Andre is any example.
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What, precisely is your Biblical argument, other than a simple unsubstantiated denial of mine? If you are right in your take on what the Scriptures teach, then by all means educate us all.

Is Jesus not lord of all earthly institutions?

Is care for the least of these not a Kingdom of God value?

Do you think that Jesus has been given "all authority on earth" except for authority over - you know - how we actually run the world?

As to whether the Scriptures support "stealing from one to give to others" - as you put it, consider this from Leviticus 25:

'If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. 26 If, however, a man has no one to redeem it for him but he himself prospers and acquires sufficient means to redeem it, 27 he is to determine the value for the years since he sold it and refund the balance to the man to whom he sold it; he can then go back to his own property. 28 But if he does not acquire the means to repay him, what he sold will remain in the possession of the buyer until the Year of Jubilee. It will be returned in the Jubilee, and he can then go back to his property

A clear case of legally mandated "taking from man A and giving to man B".

Dragoon68 · Jul 10, 2008

KenH said:

Interesting.
...
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It's loaded with forced redistribution of wealth. It proclaims strong racial and economic preferences. It would become yet another vote for favors plan. It would breed dependency upon government. It would fund yet another large government agency staffed with people who think they know what's best for everyone and anyone. It would be a lot like government schools. Years ago it would have been dismissed as socialized medicine but today universal health care sounds so much more friendly.

Andre · Jul 10, 2008

Dragoon68 said:

It's loaded with forced redistribution of wealth....
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There is clear Biblical precedent for "forced" redistirbution of wealth - the post from Leviticus 25 about the Jubilee Law.

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