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Heb. 11.13

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Mar 30, 2003.

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  1. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed them that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Why didn't the Holy Spirit not say they embraced them and were persuaded could it be this is because the order is first the persuasion of sinful man by the Holy Spirit and then the man is enabled to embrace and confess?

    Again, hillbilly hermeneutics.

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #1 Frogman, Mar 30, 2003
  2. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    As the free-willers in my area are wont to do, I guess I must say...Amen.

    Or ask the congregation for somebody to Amen me. :D

    Does this scripture scare the free-willer? Or are they regrouping and searching for a way to twist the plain word of God; Even a child can understand the order given here.

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #2 Frogman, Mar 30, 2003
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    I don't disagree, and never have disagreed that the Holy Spirit reveals things to man. I have stated that Holy Spirit conviction is part of man coming to belief in Jesus. Holy Spirit conviction of man of his sinful and lost state is the "influence" that I have oft spoken of. The Holy Spirit does not however cause one to believe. That is the Job of the knowledge that comes from the Word. It is the knowledge from the word, and the influence of the Holy Spirit by which man makes his choice to believe or not believe.
     
    #3 Yelsew, Mar 30, 2003
  4. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Good, we agree. :D

    Just had to say that. The Word is Christ, The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, such then, this knowledge is revealed from the Word, I do agree, yet to leave the choice to a man dead in sin is dangerous; what desire does such man have??

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #4 Frogman, Mar 30, 2003
  5. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Yelsew;
    Amen
    the Holy Spirit Lures man and entices him to make a decision through conviction.
    Romanbear
     
    #5 romanbear, Mar 30, 2003
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Typical Arminianism. :rolleyes: If Arminianism doesn't make the gospel presentation into something like selling soap, then it makes the gospel presentation into trying to trick man(luring? enticing? :rolleyes: ) into making a decision that man is unable to make unless he has been regenerated.
     
    #6 KenH, Mar 30, 2003
  7. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Typical Arminianism. :rolleyes: If Arminianism doesn't make the gospel presentation into something like selling soap, then it makes the gospel presentation into trying to trick man(luring? enticing? :rolleyes: ) into making a decision that man is unable to make unless he has been regenerated. </font>[/QUOTE]Looking back from the viewpoint of eternal life, does it matter what devices were employed that convicted and convinced you to belief in Jesus so that you could enjoy that eternal life with the Christ?

    Spiritual truth is "typical" of all believers in Jesus.
     
    #7 Yelsew, Mar 30, 2003
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does. False methods lead to false confessions which lead to false security which leads to hell.
     
    #8 KenH, Mar 30, 2003
  9. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Yes, it does. False methods lead to false confessions which lead to false security which leads to hell. </font>[/QUOTE]Those who end up in hell do/did not confess belief in Jesus! They may have confessed knowledge of Jesus, but not faith in Jesus.
     
    #9 Yelsew, Mar 30, 2003
  10. TheTravelingMinstrel

    TheTravelingMinstrel New Member

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    Yes, it does. False methods lead to false confessions which lead to false security which leads to hell. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, arminists try to 'sell' the gospel, but instead they end up striking a bargin and short changing the name of Christ.

    SO, we have thousands of people professing to be Christians, not because they realize they are wicked sinners before a holy God, but because they some arminist sold them a Jesus who just wants to be their friend or a Jesus who will make their life better.

    SO, we now have thousands of professed Christians who are really not. They act shamefully in the name of Christ and have been lead down the path to hell.

    I am sorry, but the ends DO NOT justify the means.
     
    #10 TheTravelingMinstrel, Mar 30, 2003
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I think that is what I referred to as a false confession.
     
    #11 KenH, Mar 30, 2003
  12. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    you are the one who continues to argue for intellectual knowledge.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
    #12 Frogman, Mar 30, 2003
  13. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    you are the one who continues to argue for intellectual knowledge.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]In addition, I think it was ScottE who said that intellectual knowledge (belief in the facts) and trust (belief on Jesus) are inseparable. I'm not sure that means anything, though, since there seem to be as many differences of opinions on how this works as there are arminians. That's why I couldn'g get anywhere with the threads I started on the topic. Nobody seemed to agree on these things.
     
    #13 npetreley, Mar 30, 2003
  14. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Soap Ken? Is AMWAY built upon the same premise of Arminianism? Just make a decision today...
     
    #14 Daniel David, Mar 30, 2003
  15. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    But what you are missing is belief in the facts of what? The answer that you leave out is "belief in the facts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." If one believes those facts, then he will believe on Christ.
     
    #15 ScottEmerson, Mar 30, 2003
  16. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    But what you are missing is belief in the facts of what? The answer that you leave out is "belief in the facts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." If one believes those facts, then he will believe on Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]That's fine. I didn't mean to misrepresent what you said.
     
    #16 npetreley, Mar 30, 2003
  17. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    I think that is what I referred to as a false confession. </font>[/QUOTE]Faith in Jesus is what salvation is all about. Faith is not an element of knowledge, knowledge is an element of Faith!
     
    #17 Yelsew, Mar 31, 2003
  18. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    you are the one who continues to argue for intellectual knowledge.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]YES, because knowledge is an element of Faith. The Word of God does not deliver to us a faith, the word deliveres to us a knowledge that leads us to faith!
     
    #18 Yelsew, Mar 31, 2003
  19. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Hi Ken;
    Your such a nice person I thought I'd answer your post.
    A quote from you;
    --------------------------------
    Typical Arminianism.
    --------------------------------
    My reply;
    Better than being a puppet on a string.
    Romanmbear
     
    #19 romanbear, Mar 31, 2003
  20. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    This taken directly from the Word of God, pertaining to order nothing has been altered. This proves to me the order is first the persuasion of the promises viewed 'afar off' and then comes the embracing of these, then the confession, based upon the persuasion worked in the heart; and the embrace.

    This order holds true to vs. 6 found above vs. 13 in Heb. 11 as well, as also in other places in scripture which show those coming to Christ, (specifically Luke 8 and the woman with an issue of blood) did she believe only after touching the hem of his garment? Or was it her belief that brought her to Christ?

    I think the order is self-evident in the Word of God, except that men want to deny this plain and simple order.

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #20 Frogman, Mar 31, 2003
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