Heb 6..what does it mean?

Scratching my head...

 

well..this is what calvin teaches. The tasting...of heb 6...is those that hear Gods word...nearly believe....and yet walk away.

This could not be the case...
for the passage say...they had the holy spirit.

still..this is passage is not saying we can lose our salvation. The way i read it....even if you could...and it says you can't...be even if you could...then you can not go back and get saved again.

In Christ...james </font>[/QUOTE] You're right on the money! My pastor growing up used to say "show me scripture where you can lose your salvation, and I'll show you scripture where you'll never get it back!"

 

That is parallel to the scripture that declares that there will never be another atonement for sin. If you accept the Atonement for sin by Jesus, then fall back into sinning, there will never be another atonement for sin!

If you lose your faith in God, which is the only thing that you possess completely, then you lose your salvation! Our salvation does not occur in this natural lifetime! Our faith does. Salvation comes once We depart this life, for it is appointed to man once to die then the judgment.

Since All men die, does that mean that all men are not saved? Isn't salvation everlasting life? If all men die, then no one is saved?

Since our salvation does not occur in this lifetime, we can only have faith that we are to be saved when we taste natural death. Our salvation, for those who have faith when they die, comes to us after this life is over. And salvation is only assured if you die with faith in God in your spirit.

So, if you come to believe, then later stop believing, you lose your salvation! Hense all the scriptural warning to keep the faith, to not fall away, to never cease to have faith. To persevere to the end. If you cannot lose your faith all those warnings are pure vanity and needless.

You cannot lose what you don't already possess and not one of us possesses salvation while living this natural life. What we do possess is FAITH in the one who made the PROMISE of everlasting life if we keep our faith in God throughout this life and die with faith in God in our spirit.

If you think you cannot lose your faith, you're crazy! Man loses faith an nearly everything he has faith in. The most volatile faith is faith in money! Money comes and goes, if you have faith in it, your faith comes and goes too! Most of us have faith in a spouse, the divorce rate in the US is now over 50%, 1 out of two marriages end in divorce, so if your faith is in your spouse you have a 50-50 chance of success!

If you have faith in the name of Jesus, thus you accept his promise of everlasting life, and you never stop believing in that name, you have a 100% probability of success...the bible says so. However, if you do not retain YOUR faith in the name of Jesus, You go immediately from 100% probability of success, to 0% probability of success.

Only those who have faith in Jesus when they die from this natural life, will receive the fulfillment of the promise. Salvation is based on your faith alone.

No one can faith for you!

 

i tend to believe the verse in question is referring to a person who never was saved and simply partook in the things of God for awhile. I don't think any false hope was given to them by God- but perhaps they knew all along that they were charlaitans. My opinion anyways.

 

Good for you.

Now you're on the right track!

So far so good.

You are correct again.

What is more to the point is that Heb 6 condemns them from falling from this saved position.

It is not bad to "FAIL" to remain "halfway saved but still lost". In fact you HOPE to FAIL to stay in such a mythical and yet doomed state!

And what is worse the idea that it is "Impossible to RENEW THEM AGAIN" speaks of trying to get them BACK to that fatal state and the lamentable fact that once fallen we can not find away to get them back into that cursed condition!!

Surely Calvin makes a huge mess of this text!!

Right again. Context is everything!

However Heb 6 advances the point beyond a saved babe-in-Christ!

Nice going James! Welcome to the light.

Hebrews 5 identifies the readers. Chapter six shows the danger they are in if they pursue their course of action and then says "But we are convinced of much better things concerning you".

In other words the danger warned about in 6:1-7 is a potential for the group but they had not already GONE to that point of danger. Paul identifies them in chapter 5 pointing out their error. Then he warns them in chapter 6 of the danger of pursuing that error showing what its ultimate end would be. He then points out that those people have not gone to the point that he warns about saying "we are convinced of much better things than that concerning you".

Ahhh "the details". How nice to be able to just accept them as they read!


In Christ,

Bob

 

Oh? But then you'd be wrong! Because if you don't work to keep your faith in God, your faith is dead faith! And not long after that you lose your faith and without faith you cannot be saved!

It's not a numbers game my friend, it is entirely attitude!

 

After all Wes knows Wes and he is entirely confident that the work that Wes began Wes will see through to the end.

john.

 

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

1PE 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

 

I believe that Salvation comes through acceptance of Christ, but I also believe that once a person has asked Christ into their life, they become reborn, and that the reborn person will cease to "continually sin" without being called back to repentence.

I was thinking about that today.

Saul was positive he was right - and I think he was enjoying his fame as the great killer of Christians - right until the moment Christ said, "Why are you persecuting me?"

Then, he didn't just change his name. Saul died and Paul was born. He'd been a legalistic Pharisee (actually, that's the only kind of Pharisee there is), and suddenly he was saying, "Hey, you don't even have to be Jewish, much less circumcised." He went from killing Christians to loving everyone, especially sinners.

Overnight!

So, for those who think I'm Armenian - Nope.

But I'm not Calvinist either.

I think you're both wrong.

 

I disagree with Calvin too. It has to be talking about those who are actually saved. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

 

Cross bump--The thread here (&lt;--clicky!) links to a series of sermons on this topic by bridgeway. From reading his interpretation of this passage I think it is not talking about those who are saved losing their salvation.

 

Good for you.

Now you're on the right track!

So far so good.

You are correct again.

What is more to the point is that Heb 6 condemns them from falling from this saved position.

It is not bad to "FAIL" to remain "halfway saved but still lost". In fact you HOPE to FAIL to stay in such a mythical and yet doomed state!

And what is worse the idea that it is "Impossible to RENEW THEM AGAIN" speaks of trying to get them BACK to that fatal state and the lamentable fact that once fallen we can not find away to get them back into that cursed condition!!

Surely Calvin makes a huge mess of this text!!

Right again. Context is everything!

However Heb 6 advances the point beyond a saved babe-in-Christ!

Nice going James! Welcome to the light.

Hebrews 5 identifies the readers. Chapter six shows the danger they are in if they pursue their course of action and then says "But we are convinced of much better things concerning you".

In other words the danger warned about in 6:1-7 is a potential for the group but they had not already GONE to that point of danger. Paul identifies them in chapter 5 pointing out their error. Then he warns them in chapter 6 of the danger of pursuing that error showing what its ultimate end would be. He then points out that those people have not gone to the point that he warns about saying "we are convinced of much better things than that concerning you".

Ahhh "the details". How nice to be able to just accept them as they read!


In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Bob, great commentary on this passage.
It is clear that he is talking about saved individuals for they "tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
"
I belive they tasted of this heavenly gift the same way that Jesus tasted death for every man in Hebrews 2:9
Jesus did not just almost die and the people in hebrews chapter 6 were not just almost saved. They were saved.

 

Since it is my post that you quoted, I am Wes, Outwest, The scriptures tend to use faith, Belief, and trust interchangably. Personally, I don't like trust as much as I do faith, because "trusts" are so easily broken whereas one must 'lose' their own faith, no one can take it from you. The meaning of trust is simply weaker in my mind, than faith.

That doesn't mean that I don't trust, it simply means that I FAITH better.

 

Exellent points!

Both sides agree that Paul is not writing to people that have back-slidden from Christianity and no longer read scripture etc.Rather the READER is going to be some Christian with a copy of the letter to the Hebrews - probably one who is faithful. That is not the issue.

Not unlike the example Christ gives of the rocky ground where the seed of eternal life DOES bring forth life and for a time it grows and flourishes - life from the dead - as ONLY God can bring about. Brought "to repentance" in such a GOOD way that when one falls away we might seek to RENEW them to such a GOOD state.

But then.... it perishes.

IN the case of those WHO HAVE once BEEN enlightened!

(This is the view of the lost - in darkness ACCEPTING light such that they ARE enlightened - at least at one time).

AND have tasted of the heavenly gift

Not the description of the totally depraved lost.


AND have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

This is never the description of the totally depraved lost experience.

"AND THEN HAVE FALLEN AWAY"

clearly FALLING away from being LOST is not a bad thing - it is a GOOD thing.


This one is just too hard to miss and too easy to see!

In Christ,

Bob