Hebrews 10:26-29

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by benz, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. benz

    benz
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    26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

    I thought we could discuss what these verses mean. In my honest analysis of the chapter and the content in these chapters. The author is not actually talking about sin in general but rather that of one knowing the truth that Jesus died for our sins and delibretly rejects the blood of the new covenant. Ie: leaving christ for another religion or being presented with the gospel and delibretly rejecting the gospel.

    For the person without christ as their mediator or without christ's righteousness has nothing more to expect than judgment and fiery indignation.

    PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS VERSES THAT ARE HIGHLY DEBATABLE! thanks,
    Ben
     
  2. Brother Bob

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    by which he was sanctified
     
  3. benz

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    Thank you bob for your input. Yes he 'was' sanctified but later decided to reject the blood of God(By making it common) as the only means of atonment. How can a person be forgiven of his sins if he rejects the very source of God's forgivness?
     
  4. Brother Bob

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    Depends if you believe you can lose your salvation or not seems to me. If you believe OSAS, then he can't later decide to reject the blood. Sanctified means to make Holy so looks like he was saved and "good ground" . If he was like one where the seed was sown on different kind of ground, then I suppose he could turn back to his own vomit.
     
  5. HankD

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    Another passage of a similar thought:

    2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​

    Put these passages together and the thought seems to be that Jesus Christ both bought and sanctified these people who apparently are lost.​

    What are the possibilities?​

    1)They are lost but bought and sanctified. This would have to be a potential state of being, they had the opportunity to be saved and sanctified, they came right up to the door of salvation, understood the Gospel but did not avail themselves of it but "chose" rather to be the master of their own destiny. This doesn't seem good theology in anybody's estimation.​

    But perhaps such exist:​

    Acts 24
    24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
    25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
    26 He hoped also that money should have been given him of Paul, that he might loose him: wherefore he sent for him the oftener, and communed with him.
    27 But after two years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, willing to shew the Jews a pleasure, left Paul bound.​

    OR ​

    2) They are saved but have fallen from grace (castaway-Grk. adokimos 1Co 9:27) and in the time of "the day shall delare it" :​

    1 Corinthians 3
    13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

    Notice that the word "destroy" is used in verse 17 of these who are "saved yet so as by fire".​

    Also ​

    1 Corinthians 5
    4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

    Again​

    1 Timothy 1
    19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
    20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


    The second possibility seems more likely to me.​

    HankD​
     
  6. Martin

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    Hebrews 10:26-31 is indeed is a very much debated passage of Scripture. There are several possible ways to view this verse:

    1) These people were saved and lost their salvation due to apostasy. (Robert Shank, Dan Corner, etc).

    2) These people were never truly saved. As a result they became guilty of apostasy and are now beyond salvation. (John MacArthur, William MacDonald, Craig Blomberg, etc).

    3) These people were saved, and remain saved, however the verse is warning them of judgment due to their apostasy. (Charles Stanley, Zane Hodges, Tony Evans, Bob Wilkin).

    Let me say, up front, that none of these understands are perfect (w/out problems). Each understanding has strengths and weaknesses. Therefore I think it is best to allow that our individual view(s) on this passage maybe incomplete or wrong. Allow me to quickly discuss each of the three understandings.

    1. Loss of Salvation. This view is certainly the easiest view. However it runs into several major problems. For example in chapter 10 of Hebrews verse 14 it says that believers are "perfect forever" through the death of Christ. That seems to refute this understanding.

    2. Never Saved. This is the view I personally hold. The letter of Hebrews is, in part, written to professing believers who are suffering persecution for their faith and who were therefore tempted to turn away from Christ (10:32-39). The writer of Hebrews warns them that doing so would result in their eternal destruction (Heb 10:39). However that destruction would not be a result of them losing their salvation. Rather it would be the result of their never having truly been saved (Heb 3:6,14, 4:1-3). Those who willfully turn away from Christ after coming to understand the Gospel are guilty of apostasy. They would have been better off never knowing the truth (2Pet 2:20-22). The willful sin in verse 26 is apostasy which, as the writer of Hebrews explains, is worse than rejecting the Law of Moses (Heb 1:1-4, 2:1-8, 10:28-29). One problem that this view "does" have is found in the phrase "by which he was sanctified". The question is who is "he" in this verse? Is it the person or is it Christ. Most scholars who hold this position assert that it is Jesus Christ. However there is another position that I think needs to be considered.

    Dr Craig Blomberg makes the following statement:

    "But sanctification does not always mean growth in Christian living, as so often in Paul, but can mean merely a 'setting apart' of some kind. In 9:13, it is clearly used in the ritual sense of outward cleansing only, and that mya be how our author is using the term here too." -From Pentecost to Patmos, pg429.

    Whether or not one agrees with Blomberg, as I do, one must be careful to note that saying that this refers to a saved person who has lost his/her salvation is very unlikely. See above.


    3. Temporal Punishment view. While this view is popular I think it just does not fit the text. Notice that the writer talks about the person being consumed by the fire of judgment (vs27) and suffering a punishment worse than simply physical death. I think the verse is clearly talking about eternal punishment and not loss of rewards in heaven.

    A good commentary on Hebrews is:

    "The Epistle To The Hebrews" by FF Bruce.

    Part of the New International Commentary on the New Testament.
     
  7. HankD

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    Good post Martin.

    However, I would disagree with your analysis of verse 27 as ultimate loss.
    BTW, does it seem to you that vss 26-27 have an Old Covenant sense about them?

    Could this be a question/statement to an Old Covenant practitioner who willfully sins since there is "no sacrifice" for willful sin under Moses, only for an inadvertant sin of omission or ignorance?

    HankD
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    All this scripture is showing is that Christ died for all. God so loved the whole world that He gave His only begotten Son.

    1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Feb 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2007
  9. Martin

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    ==In the sense that the author is comparing apostasy under the new covenant with apostasy under the old covenant, yes (see vs28). Beyond that, however, I would not be comfortable.

    ==I suppose you are talking about Numbers 15:30? Actually I think this is worse than that. This person has come to a knowledge of the Gospel (vs26) and then they have willfully turned away from it (vs26,28-29). For these people it will be much worse than for those who rejected the Law of Moses (vs29). The light under the new covenant is greater, therefore, the judgment is also greater (Heb 2:1-4).

    Those are some good points/questions though Hank. As I said, I think we do have to be careful not to be overly dogmatic on these verses. They are very difficult and many Christians have differed as to their meanings.
     
  10. Brandon C. Jones

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    A commentary suggestion is helpful and I will mention that the most accessible English treatment is William Lane's two-volume work in the Word Biblical Commentary series. I'll admit to holding to the "popular" (though IMO it's a rather minority position) #3 above.

    All 5 warning passages should be treated the same way and their OT context and "rest" should not be ignored, which is why I see the strength in Martin's #3 opinion above. One must decide what to do about the rebellious Exodus generation, and I think many are too hasty to count all the rebellious children of Israel as unregenerate by equating Rest with salvation, but even Moses (who was saved) missed out on entering the Promised Land.

    No interpretation completely satisfies, but any opportunity to study this wonderful book of Scripture is a good one. I highly recommend a good commentary and give yourself the opportunity to dig in to Hebrews. It's a marvelous work!
     
  11. HankD

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    Yes, agreed.

    Also (Brandon), the message of Revelation chapters 2-3 (the messages to the 7 angels of the 7 churches) has overtones of Hebrews 6 and 10.

    HankD
     

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