Hebrews 6:1 - 8 (with references back to 5:11 - 14 and forward to 6:9 - 12)

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Abiyah, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Illness can sometimes be delicious, because it
    gives one a chance to do some extra studying
    in the Bible. This weekend was one of those
    times.

    Along with other Scriptures, I got into Hebrews
    6:1 - 8, breaking it down some, in order to disect
    it for a better understanding. Concentrating upon
    verses 4 - 6, but including the context, what
    would you say it means and why?
     
  2. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Okay. Maybe people want to read it here. Please
    do not penalize me for not having a KJV handy.
    Please?! And I don't mind who answers --
    Calvinist or Arminian. I had simply been taught
    that it meant one thing, but it seems to mean some-
    thing different.

    Hebrews 6:4 - 6, in the NASB, is as follows:
    Considering the context, in my opinion, Hebrews
    was written to Jews regarding their continued
    access to our God. I believe that this section is
    teaching that our Messiah is better than Aaron,
    because He is a perfect High Priest. In the verses
    just previous to the ones I am calling out, the ones
    being addressed are called "dull of hearing," and
    told that they are immature as believers because
    they have refused to mature. The writer is calling
    for them to leave the playpen of added laws and
    customs and of worrying about resurrection and
    judgment.

    Then comes verses 4 - 6 (above), followed by a
    caution not to be nit-picky and cantankerous,
    because they have potential for better things,
    shown by their ability to work, to love, and to
    serve.

    Am I correct, then, in believing that the writer, by
    what is written in verse 4, is saying that the
    receivers of this writing were brought to the Truth
    (enlightened) but have merely tasted the "heavenly
    gift," not received it?

    Re verse 6, these who have merely tasted but have
    fallen away cannot be brought back to repentance,
    because in refusing the Truth, the recrucify our
    Messiah in their hearts?

    This remains a bit confusing to me.
     
  3. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    I would not agree. It says they have veen enlighened and made "partakers in the Holy Spirit". They have turned away. Salvation can be lost by the free will of the individual who walks in Christ. This we must be on our guard against. The gift is lost for them and there is nothing you or I or they themselves can do to retrieve it. I do hold out and have seen evidence that God in his mercy can return them to him by his grace.

    Blessings
     
  4. trying2understand

    trying2understand
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    I agree, Thess.

    I think that there has been no interest in this thread because the verses argue against OSAS.
     
  5. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    Couldn't resist.... [​IMG]

    If you believe these verses mean you can lose your salvation, then you HAVE to believe that salvation will never again be granted. Once lost is lost forever.
     
  6. trying2understand

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    Curtis, perhaps you can shed some light on the meaning of the verses. [​IMG]

    4. For in the case of those who have once
    been enlightened and have tasted of the
    heavenly gift and have been made par-
    takers of the Holy Spirit,
    5. and have tasted the good word of God
    and the powers of the age to come,
    6. and have fallen away, it is impossible
    to renew them again to repentance, since
    they again crucify to themselves the Son
    of God and put Him to open shame.
     
  7. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
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    Hey guys, loss of salvation is an Armenian belief, you know, us tongue-talkers... [​IMG]

    Look at this, Sorry I feel a bit mischievous right now.
    Obviously a Calvinist Cessasionist is not considered in this verse at all and therefore can't lose their salvation because...

    As a Cessasionist they refuse to even consider, much less taste the powers of the age to come. :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

    Sorry, couldn't resist this one.

    Seriously, though, If you entertain the idea that someone can walk away from God after 'tasting and seeing that the Lord is good' then you also have to take a look at the difficulty of arriving at that situation.

    You just about have to be a Faith-Healer Miracle Working Super-Faith Guy to qualify for not being re-instated.

    Even though I am Armenian in basic belief I do not believe that I can casually lose my salvation because my God is a jealous God and He fights for me.

    Should I fall, underneath are the everlasting arms to catch me.

    I'd have to be pretty determined to crawl out of His Hands if after falling any distance and being caught by God's Hands if I then made the effort to crawl out of them.

    So, I guess you'd say I believe a determined Armenian *could* walk away. But, for the life of me I can't think of a sane reason why they would.

    And, I am not sure insanity or an emotional upset would count against re-reinstatement either.

    God's Grace is sufficient. His Mercy without end.
     
  8. trying2understand

    trying2understand
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    So far alot of what people say it doesn't mean, but no takers on the challenge to say what it does mean. [​IMG]

    Hmmm...
     
  9. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    Curtis,

    Did you read my whole post. I think I handled your objection. It says "it is impossible
    to renew them again to repentance, since
    they again crucify to themselves the Son
    of God and put Him to open shame.". It is impossible for us just as it is much easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heaven, yet Joseph of Arimethia was wealthy and likely went. Solomon and Abraham were very wealthy and are in heaven I am quite sure. The verse is talking about Apostacy and the man who has fallen away is not open to our words. Yet I hold out the hope that what is impossible for us is possible for God. That by his choice the man might be moved back to faith. The virtrol with which former Catholic anti-catholics attack the Church fits this verse very well. Rarely are they ever able to grant us a point no matter how plain the truth may be. I pray for God's grace on them.

    Blessings on your hiatus.
     
  10. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    SpiritualMadMan,

    Take a look at Romans 8:38 and guard yourself. There is a whole list of things that cannot separate us from the love of God. There is one thing not mentioned. Sin. Throughout the New Testament there are warnings against sin and the snares that await us. Be not too causual against the wickednes and snares of the devil. You may feel you could never reject Christ now but many a pastor has run away with the wife of one of his flock. Sin starts out as just a little thing. Next thing you know your in over your head and enslaved by it once more.

    Blessings
     
  11. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
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    Thess...

    Agreed, though, I have always thought of the missing item as 'Self'.

    As in Me, Myself, and I.

    As is we have met the enemy and it are us. :D
     
  12. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    How in the world can you equate Arminianism with
    "tongue-talkers," or was that purely in jest? :-D

    - - - - - - - - - - - -

    So I guess there are no answers for my questions?
     
  13. SpiritualMadMan

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    Abiyah,

    You mean there are non-Pentecostals who are Armenian???

    My!? Wow?! I guess I've been sequestered too much.

    I honestly didn't think there was any such things as a non-Pentecostal Armenian. Sorry, if I've offended anyone.

    (Actually, except for the mischievousness, I thought I had a pretty good answer?)
     
  14. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Yes, Pentecostal Arminians are just a portion of
    Arminianism. I came from a sector I call holiness-
    Arminian. Nazarenes (my husband's church) are
    Arminians. Some Baptsts are Arminian. Some
    Methodists are Arminian. And there are many
    others who are Arminian in belief, including Roman
    Catholics.

    But it is Arminian, no E :). People who are
    Armenian are from Armenia; those who are
    Arminian follow the teachings of Arminius. But I
    am a far-from-perfect speller, too.

    You were not offensive, though.

    Re your answer: you know how it is -- it was just
    not the answer I was looking for -- not exactly on
    the aspect I intended. But even if it had been, I
    was thrown off so much by the Arminianism =
    "tongue-talkers" that I would not have noticed!! :-D
     

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