Hebrews 9:27

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. Berean

    Berean
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1
    And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement. NKJ In light of this scripture would it be a scripture based assumption that the two witnesses's in Rev 11 are Enoch and Elijah since neither one of them have died?
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    If you will study a little further, Elijah did die, and NOT when Elisha was with him when he was taken away, either.
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Don't see any connection but the two witnesses are not Enoch and Elijah or any other of mankind!
     
  4. Berean

    Berean
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1
    Whom do you believe they are or may be?
     
  5. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    I too don't see the connection. Can you elaborate on why you're making that assumption?
     
  6. Berean

    Berean
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1
    Viewing Revelation as an account of actual things to come I see the two witnesses as actual persons and both Enoch and Elijah "fill the bill" having neither one experienced death.
     
  7. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    Brother, you need to study a little further if you think Elijah hasn't tasted death yet...blessings...
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,646
    Likes Received:
    223
    Lazarus died twice, so I don't think you can use Heb. 9:27 as a criterion for discerning the witnesses mentioned in Revelation.

    The witnesses are the the words and acts of the true church.
     
  9. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    I could actually see that because it is appointed unto man to die ONCE. And as neither of the two actually died, they could experience death and be resurrected as Scripture speaks about the two witnesses.

    It's a possibility but I don't think Scripture for sure makes it clear.
     
  10. Berean

    Berean
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1
    Please enlighten me. What scripture are you alluding to?
     
  11. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
     
  12. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    Study John the Baptist and what Jesus says about him.
     
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Some years ago I taught the Book of Revelation in a senior mens SS Class. I take the "idealist" approach in interpreting and teaching the Book, that is, Revelation sets forth, primarily in symbolic language, eternal truths regarding the conflict between good and evil.

    The number seven is significant in the Book of Revelation: seven churches, seven candles, seven seals, seven trumpets, seven vials. There are also seven different pictures of the return of Jesus Christ at the end of the age and time as we know it!

    I believe that the two witnesses represent the Church at any time in history.
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,646
    Likes Received:
    223
    You should brush up on metaphor. John was not the reincarnation of Elijah.
     
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    True!:thumbs:
     
  16. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    I agree with the above agreement. John had the same Spirit that Elijah had, that Spirit,
    Elisha had a double portion of.
     
  17. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3

    You know, you Brothers may be right, but here is where I get my belief from.


    John 1:32-34
    32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

    33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

    34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


    John the Baptist was given instruction to Who the Messiah was, and the sign he saw of the Spirit aboding in was Him. Furthermore, he was indwelt with the Holy Ghost while still in Elizabeth's womb. I see John the Baptist as a special person sent by God. Then again, I could be wrong. But I do believe what I think the says about him.
     
    #17 convicted1, Nov 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2012
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I believe that John the Baptist was a special person sent by God. I just don't believe he was a reincarnation of Elijah!
     
  19. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    Isaiah 40:1-3
    1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

    2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins.

    3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.


    Malachi 31-3
    1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

    2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

    3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.



    Matthew 11:7-14
    7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

    8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

    9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

    10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

    11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

    12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

    13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

    14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.


    Mark 1:1-3
    1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

    2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

    3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.


    Matthew 17:10-13
    10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

    12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.


    Sure looks like Elijah fits the description of John the Baptist to me. Now, I do not agree with reincarnation, but no one other than John the Baptist, had the baptism of the Spirit in their mother's womb either.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Very interesting. However, consider the following Scripture:

    John 1:19-21, NKJV
    19. Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
    20. He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed"I am not the Christ."
    21. And they asked him, "What then, Are you Elijah?"
    He said, "I am not."
    "Are you the Prophet?"
    And he answered, "No."


    Now consider the angel talking to the father of John:

    Luke 1:16, 17 NKJV
    16. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
    17. He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,
     

Share This Page

Loading...