Hell and the Commandments "For ever and ever"?

Here are some scriptures about the fact that the wicked will perish.

Ps 37:20 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Ps 68:1-3 1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

Ps 73:27 27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.

Ps 112:10 10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.

Isa 41:11-12 11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:28 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

1 Cor 1:17-18 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

II Th 2:10-12 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Pet 2:12 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Pet 3:9-12 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Jude 1:7 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

1828 Websters dictionary

Ever

2. Forever, eternally; to perpetuity; during everlasting continuance.
This is my name forever. Ex.3.
In a more lax sense, this word signifies continually, for an indefinite period.
His master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall serve him forever. Ex.21.
These words are sometimes repeated, for the sake of emphasis; forever and ever, or forever and forever.

 

Forever in EX. 21 meant until that mans life was over, his age ended.

The age of hell will end aswell... when the Lake of Fire takes over in rev 20:14

 

Andre wrote:
Even if I am successful in this, all it shows is that there is no compelling evidence against the annihilation position. I still need to provide reasons (evidence) why this position (a plausible one, it seems to me) has better evidential support than than the "eternal torment" position, which I have never said was not plausible.


Eloidalmanutha:
If, you are being fair minded, but I suspect agenda , there is no "plausible" evidence that would convince you, because there is no common ground for debate.


Andre wrote:
Regarding your second paragraph: In the same way, you would not simply accept a claim from me that a metaphorical reading of Revelation 20:10 is required, you surely cannot expect me to "take your word on it" that this material is to be taken literallty. Yet this is what you are doing - you are begging the question, by simply claiming the existence of some unspecified "scripts". What scripts?

eloidalmanutha:
The Scripts have been posted numerous times. If you need a refresher course, I will glady repost them

Andre wrote:
I am concerned that some our "disagreements" are not so much about the subject matter, but rather about the nature of rational debate. I will repeat - positive claims (such as "forever means forever in rev 20:10) need to be supported by evidence that is not just a question-begging re-assertion of one's thesis.

Eloidalmanutha:
I will reiterate that there is no common ground from which claims can either be defended or supported. Until that common ground is established, the debate is at a stand still.

 

The dead are SLEEPING-------

Deut 31:16 16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.


2 Sam 7:12 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

IKing 1:21 21 Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.


Job 7:21 21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:10-12 10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.


Ps 13:3 3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;


Jer 51:39 39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.


Jer 51:57 57 And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


IKing 1:21 21 Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.


IKing 2:10 10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.


IKing 11:43 43 And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.


IKing 14:20 20 And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his stead.


IKing 14:31 31 And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.


IKing 15:8 8 And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.


Dan 12:2 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Matt 9:24 24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.


Mark 5:39 39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.


John 11:11-14 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


Acts 7:60 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


1 Cor 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Thes 4:13-16 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


2 Pet 3:4 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


Matt 27:52-53 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

Here is a question for those who believe in the immortality of the soul. If everyone is already going to live forever, either in heaven, or hell, then why does the bible promise the believer eternal life over, and over, and over again? What is God trying to pull over our eyes? If we are already immortal, then He is really not offering us anything, but that which we already poses. Is God being deceitful, by offering us what we already have? Observe the following scriptures.

Mark 1029And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s, 30But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


John 314And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 6Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


John 10 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 17 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Romans 2 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God. 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 5 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Timothy 6 12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

19Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Titus 1 1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 John 2 25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 5 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Matthew 19 29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

John 3 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 4 14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 5 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6 27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48I am that bread of life.

Galatians 6 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

1 Timothy 1 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Come on folks, this isn’t rocket science. Those who accept Jesus Christ are promised eternal life, as apposed to that which is the opposite of life, that is death, non existence. Punishment is by fire, but when it’s over, it’s over.

Ezekiel 28 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Jude 1 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The truth is plain to see, for those who are looking for it. Sadly, many are not looking for the truth, but moreover, to have their ears tickled.

2 Timothy 4 1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Very true.

Some people read about a fire that could not be quenched by the fire department's efforts to put it out - and then suppose this mean "it kept burning yet did not actually burn anything up".

Never is that the meaning of a fire that can not be quenched.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Kamoroso wrote:
"Here is a question for those who believe in the immortality of the soul. If everyone is already going to live forever, either in heaven, or hell, then why does the bible promise the believer eternal life over, and over, and over again? What is God trying to pull over our eyes? If we are already immortal, then He is really not offering us anything, but that which we already poses. Is God being deceitful, by offering us what we already have? Observe the following scriptures."


I am smiling, the point of the verses confirming eternal life is so that we understand there IS life after death. Where else would this knowledge come from? As Paul said, we should comfort each other with these words. It is the reward for a life serving the King of kings - to be with Him forever, not abandoned and cursed to eternal hell fire, but to live in His Light and Love forever without end.

 

I am come that they might have life; and that they might have it more abundantly. --- Jesus Christ

 

Revelation 20:14 does not mean that hell ends only that it is cast into the lake of fire. We assume it ends but we really cant know. We know however that the lake of fire is eternal rather or not hell is is pointless. Both are separation from Christ which is torment and pain. I will never know, even in death I will not know. Knowing would cause pain and there are no tears in Heaven. Some of the topics we debate here are trivial and pointless. Hell is bad and Heaven is Good. Satan is Evil and God is Love. I am Saved by Grace and not of Works. God loves everyone but People hate God. I know these things are true. I know God is not tolerate of sin. I know the Bible is the Word of God. I know that without Christ you are condemned. I know that God hears my every pray, knows my every thought, and loves me more than I will ever know or deserve.

 

Jesus did not go to "hell". He commended His Spirit to the Father upon His death. The actual term is grave or place of the dead, although the word hell is used in most translations, it is a "weak" interpretation, in my opinion, as there are several terms for hell/grave in both the Hebrew and Greek.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

hell = sheol - grave, underworld, abode of the dead

Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

hell = hades - the realm of the dead, grave

Perhaps I should explain so I am not misunderstood

Jesus completed His work on the cross - He said "It is Finished" and Paul refers to this in Col 2:14,15.

Jesus was in the grave and rose again, triumphant over death, that we might be raised with Him in new life and in the last day to live forever with Him.

 

Eloidalmanutha is correct. Jesus did not descend into Hell as we know it. He descended into Sheol (in Greek, Hades), which is the place where, in OT Jewish custom, the souls of the dead went to rest. Aka, the grave.