HELL- Does it Burn Forever and Ever?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, Jan 15, 2007.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    HELL- Does it Burn Forever and Ever?

    There are many many verses in the Bible that talk about what happens to the wicked when they die. I thought I would just go ahead and start this thread on the Topic of "Hell" since I had already started one on "What happens when we die?"

    The thing is that these two Doctrines of Hellfire and What happens at time of death go hand in hand. This is because I believe that we do not have a NATURALLY immortal soul. This was taken away from Adam and Eve when they sinned, the Angel barred the way to the Tree of Life after that. And Immortality is a gift given to us at the time of the Second Coming of Christ... at the Resurrection Day.

    And you see, if you believe the soul is NATURALLY immortal then of course you'd go straight to heaven when you die and you would also, if wicked, burn forever and ever in Hell, because you'd have the gift of eternal life. Im posting this thread so that you can realize the correlation between the two doctrines of What happens when you die and eternally burning Hell.

    Here is just a little bit for you to read... first you have to realize that the Bible calls the Lake of Fire THE SECOND DEATH, so obviously there's a misunderstanding about eternal torment.


    "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death." Rev. 21:8.

    What is said of this fire in another place?
    "He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt. 3:12.

    NOTE. - The fire is said to be everlasting because it is not "quenched." If fire is quenched after taking hold upon a house, the structure is saved; but if the fire is unquenchable, it does for the house just what the last quoted text says it will do with the chaff (the wicked) namely burn it up. Such a fire is called "everlasting," because it lasts as long as there is anything for it to prey upon, and because its results are everlasting.

    Has everlasting or eternal fire ever been visited upon men in the past?
    "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.

    What was the result of this eternal fire upon those cities?

    "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6.

    NOTE. - "Everlasting" fire converted these cities into ashes, and the apostle says they were made an ensample to those who should after live ungodly. We cannot for a moment suppose that those cities are now burning; for the saline waters of the Dead Sea rollover the very spot where they stood.

    What will be the final effect of this fire on the wicked?
    "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power." 2 Thess. 1:9.

    "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death." Rev. 21:8.

    In this fire will there be torment? and how long will it last?
    "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever." Rev. 14:10, 11.

    NOTE. - The Greek term translated in this text "forever and ever," has different meanings; according to the connection in which it is used, such as, duration, finite or infinite; unlimited duration, past or future; time, age, lifetime; the world, universe. Greenfield.

    How is the term understood in the case of certain Hebrew servants?
    "His master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him forever." Ex. 21:6.

    NOTE. - He could not serve his master longer than he lived.
    For how long a time did Samuel's mother lend him to the Lord to serve in the temple?

    "I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide forever." "Therefore also I have lent him to the Lord; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord." 1 Sam. 1:22, 28.

    NOTE. - In this case it is definitely stated to be ''as long as he liveth." Had Samuel lived only a week or a month, the "forever" would have been limited to a week or a month. It is evident that the term "forever" often means "limited duration."

    How long was Jonah carried in the whale's belly through the depths?
    "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me forever." Jonah 2:6.
    -Bible Readings for the Home, very old book, no copyright

    remember now, these are just a few of the MANY verses like this.. on the subject of what happens to the wicked
     
    #1 Claudia_T, Jan 15, 2007
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  2. Claudia_T

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    It isnt that I dont believe there is a Hell, because I do.
    Its just that I dont believe the fire burns forever and ever throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity.

    Thats why in that famous Bible verse Jesus said:
    16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Notice Jesus didnt say "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not burn forever and ever throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity, but have everlasting life" ?
    He said the wicked PERISH.

    Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Malachi4:3: And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    But anyway please dont think that I dont believe in Hell...
    I think that people will burn for a time, some longer than others. but that the fire will go out... after a time

    Lk:12:47: And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    Lk:12:48: But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    see the thing is that if you will read the stuff I posted over there on the "What happens when you die" thread... well if you believe you have a NATURALLY immortal soul then you have to believe you will go to heaven when you die... and you would ALSO believe your soul would go on forever and ever in hell too...

    and so these two doctrines go hand in hand. And we believe that the doctrine of the naturally immortal soul came from the Roman Catholic Church who got it from the Greeks, who were pagans. the thing is you lost immortality when Adam and Eve sinned and you arent give it again till the second coming of Christ. The wicked dont get the gift of eternal life... they dont get to live forever and ever... in hell or otherwise
    Rom:6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    anyway I just wanted to explain those things because alot of people go off then saying that SDAs dont believe in Hell, or that the wicked get punished... but thats not true.
     
    #2 Claudia_T, Jan 15, 2007
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  3. Amy.G

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    I posted this on your other thread, but I'll move it here.

    You have to ignore a huge amount of scripture to believe that hell is not an eternal fire.

    Matthew 18:8“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.

    Mark 9:44 where ‘ Their worm does not die
    And the fire is not quenched.

    Revelation 14:10-11 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

    I could name a lot more but you get the picture, I hope.
     
  4. Shiloh

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    Claudia just wrote over 1800 words to say the Bible is not true.

    And we believe that the doctrine of the naturally immortal soul came from the Roman Catholic Church who got it from the Greeks, who were pagans. by Claudia

    The wicked dont get the gift of eternal life... they dont get to live forever and ever... in hell

    anyway I just wanted to explain those things because alot of people go off then saying that SDAs dont believe in Hell, or that the wicked get punished... but thats not true.?

    But anyway please dont think that I dont believe in Hell...
    I think that people will burn for a time, some longer than others. but that the fire will go out... after a time


    Ed, what do you call this?


     
  5. DHK

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    If not Hell, then the Lake of Fire. The end result is the same. So, yes it does. Your doctrine is totally false, heretical, and is based on a complete misunderstanding of Scripture, if not a deliberate twisting of Scripture. You would do good to mind Peter's words:

    2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    You face your own destruction if you keep on this way. Destruction in the Bible does not mean annihilation. Destruction has its consequences. The consequences of eternal destruction is separation from God for all eternity.

    Everyone has an immortal spirit, given at the time of birth. At death that spirit will go to heaven or hell depending on whether it is saved or unsaved. It is immortal already. That is why we have the ability to communicate with God. Man is a spirit-being. That is what differentiates him from animals. That spirit lives on forever, and will live either in Hell or Heaven. Read 2Cor.5. We have an earthly tabernacle that houses an eternal spirit. This tabernacle or tent will someday turn to dust. Someday we will receive our celestial body or tabernacle which will be glorified and house our spirit. The spirit lives. Our body does not.

    The spirit of the unsaved also lives. Someday it will also receive an immortal body, as there will be a second resurrection. The word "resurrection" always refers to the physical body. That physical body will clothe the spirit and stand before God in the Great White Throne Judgement only to receive its final judgement and be cast into the Lake of Fire to endure everlasting destruction forever and ever. There will be wailing and weeping and gnashing of teeth--something a spirit cannot do.
    You do err not knowing the Scriptures neither the power of God.
    God gave to every man and woman an immortal spirit.
    To the animals also he gave a soul.
    The spirit at death goes to heaven just as Lazarus went to paradise. Someday the resurrection will take place and Lazarus will receive his body as well. Some day the second resurrection will take place and the rich man will receive his body and be cast into the Lake of fire. Is it that hard to understand the Scriptures? Why do you twist them?
     
  6. DHK

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    This is absolutey false. John is using a parable. He is speaking to Jews. He is not referring to the Lake of Fire. Nowhere does he speak of the Lake of Fire. This is more Scripture twisting by you. I adomonish you to remember the words of 2Peter 3:16.
    John is using a picture of a barn that is being swept clean. It is a parable. The teaching in the parable is that of purification. It is a parable about the Kingdom. The subjects are Jews, and the topic is the Kingdom. He is teaching that the Kingdom will be pure. Not everything in the parable has a literal meaning. There is one central truth to the parable. He is speaking of purity, and nowhere does he say that the unbelieving will be annihilated. That is your false doctrine that has been made up by your false cult.

    But that is not the teaching of the parable; that is the teaching of Claudia and the SDA's. Learn the teaching of the Bible. It will serve you much better. It is not speaking of the burning up of "souls." And it gives no inidcation that it does. It speaks of the preparation of the Kingdom. The Kingdom will be purified. That is all. You read too much into it. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach the annihilation of souls or soul sleep.

    Absolutely--on every unsaved individual in history.
    What is a city Claudia? Is the city simply the buildings and the infrastucture, or does the word "city" include the people within it? Without the people there is no city. When Sodom and Gomorrrah were destroyed all those that were in it went into everlasting punishment. What did Jesus say about them.

    Matthew 11:23-24 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
    Sodom is not just ashes. The people of Sodom will be there at the day of Judgement--the Great White Throne Judgement, which Jesus referred to.
    Since when does destruction mean annihiliation? It doesn't. And that is precisely why it is everlastig. You have defeated your own argument by quoting this verse. The punishment is everlasting. It is everlasting separation from God--forever and forever--the worst kind of "destruction" a person could have. It does not mean annihilation. That is your mixed up interpretation.
     
  7. DHK

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    Read verse 10--and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever. You conveniently leave this out. There is no other meaning here but eternal punishment.
    Couldn't be any plainer could it. So why do you deny it?

    But there is no reason to allegorize the meaning or settle for a lesser meaning when the primary meaning fits the context just as well. Otherwise you are not rightly dividing the word of truth and are simply forcing your own ideas into the text. In other words you are making things up.
    It is understood within the context in which it is given; context which you ignore. The context of Hell and the the Lake of Fire is vastly different than the context of the service of a slave. Is there such a thing as common sense here?
    So you equate the length of these people's lives to the length of the time of Hell or the Lake of Fire?? Amazing? I think you need a lesson, not only in hermeneutics, but in the English language as well.
     
  8. Shiloh

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    Something to think about when talking to a lost person, Notice,
    1Co 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
    1Co 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. 1Co 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1Co 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? 1Co 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 1Co 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    We as saved people we will be "changed" however there is no place I've found where a lost person will ever be changed. We can't imagine a person dying in a sinful body wracked by sin and rejecting the free pardon of sin and then spending eternity in the lake of fier in that same condition.
     
  9. Claudia_T

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    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Here are some more verses for those who would like to read them:[/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]

    "I tell you, Nay; but, except ye repent, ye shall all like
    [/FONT] wise perish." Luke 13:3 (1 Cor. 1:18) (Job 20:4-6). NOTE. - Perish.- to be blotted from existence. - Webster.


    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption." 2 Peter 2:12.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the lord shall be as the fat of lambs; they shall consume, into smoke shall they consume away." Ps. 37:20. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - Consume. - to exterminate. - Webster.[/FONT]


    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more; but the righteous is an everlasting foundation." Prov. 10:25.[/FONT]


    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Mal. 4:1.[/FONT]


    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"For as ye have drunk upon My holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually; yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been." Obad. 1:16.[/FONT]​

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Ps. 37:10.[/FONT]​
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]
    [/FONT]
     
    #9 Claudia_T, Jan 15, 2007
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  10. webdog

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    HELL- Does it Burn Forever and Ever?

    It will at least burn until the Cleveland Browns win the Super Bowl! Then what I have been told my entire life about hell freezing over will be the end of hell... :D
     
  11. El_Guero

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    "Does Hell burn forever?" What does the Bible say?

     
  12. Claudia_T

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    Rv:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    thats what my Bible says...
     
  13. DHK

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    And you point is??
    The only point of that verse is to give further evidence to the credence of everlasting punishment in the Lake of Fire. Check again with Rev.20:10.
     
  14. Shiloh

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    Rv:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    thats what my Bible says...by Claudia


    Then why can't you just believe it?
     
  15. tinytim

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    Death is separation...The lost will be separated from God forever.


    The burning bush was on fire, but not consumed, so there can be a fire that doesn't consume...Exodus 3:2

    Immortality came with the image of God that humans were created in... not based upon whether we eat the right fruit...
    Therefore we will exist somewhere forever, either in the Lake of fire or Heaven..

    If Hell is short, why cast it into the Lake of fire?

    If people don't go to Hell upon death, why even mention it is thrown into the lake of fire...
    What is Hell then?
     
  16. Jon-Marc

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    In Rev. 20:14.15, it says, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
     
  17. ccdnt

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    Only through a misunderstanding of Scripture or a purposeful twisting of Scripture can one conclude that unbelievers will not be tormented in the lake of fire for eternity. The Bible is very plain about this.

    To teach the false doctrine of annihilation is very dangerous. If people believe this to be true, then why get saved? Some will undoubtedly reason that they can live however they want here on earth. In the end, they will eventually cease to exist anyway. Once they no longer exist, they cannot experience pain, anguish, dispair...nothing. They would not even remember they existed in the first place.

    Hopefully no one reading about the false doctrine of annihilation will be led to believe it is true. God's Word is true and it does not teach this doctrine.
     
  18. Melanie

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    If hell was not so bad why did Jesus Christ die such a hideous death to redeem mankind.......
     
  19. Claudia_T

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    The Bible is extremely plain on the fact that we do not naturally possess an immortal soul. This is a Roman Catholic idea adopted by the Pagan Greeks and you all ought to get along nicely with the Catholics on this...

    The first great lie told to mankind:
    Gen:3:4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die

    "Behold, all souls are Mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Eze. 18:4.

    "Who is the blessed and only potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords: who only hath immortality." 1 Tim. 6:15, 16.

    How does man obtain immortality?
    "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life." Rom. 2:7.

    NOTE. - One does not need to seek for a thing which he already possesses.
     
    #19 Claudia_T, Jan 16, 2007
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  20. Claudia_T

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    Somehow I doubt that the Second Death (the operative word being DEATH) is going to be a really pleasant experience for the wicked.

    Lk:12:47: And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    Lk:12:48: But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    ...and I dont imagine that it was very pleasant at all for Jesus to have to die that death for every human being either.

    But it must be pleasant for you to get along so nicely with the Protestants on this one. The doctrine of the natural immortality of the soul enables Catholics (at least in their own minds) to contact the dead saints. Like Ignatius Loyola, the first Jesuit did. I have to in a certain sense, hand it to the Roman Catholic Church on what they have managed to do in getting nearly the entire Protestant world to believe in the Natural Immortality of the Soul. Quite an accomplishment. Very unscriptural though, (see my post above).

    The God I serve doesnt give the gift of eternal life to the wicked.
     
    #20 Claudia_T, Jan 16, 2007
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