HELL IS NOT LAKE OF FIRE

Do a search on "whosoever".... used more than 5 times. "Search words "whosoever" 162 results"

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?search=whosoever&SearchType=AND&version=KJV&restrict=&StartRestrict=&EndRestrict=&rpp=25&language=english&searchpage=0&x=18&y=10 </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you David.
Now address the point I was making.
In His service;
Jim

 

I have always had a theory about this. Usually hell has been considered as "down". When certain people disobeyed God in the Old Testament they were swallowed by the Earth into Hell.

A bottomless pit is described in other places. So, think about this. The center of the Earth there would be no gravity and we know it is filled with molten rock. Due to the high pressure the molten rock would no doubt be dark. So, therefore darkness.

Earth will be destroyed by fire only to be replaced by a new heaven and new Earth. If the Earth is destroyed it will leave a mass of molten rock floating and becoming a lake of fire in space, or whereever it winds up.

Therefore, hell, the lake of fire, the bottomless pit while Earth exists and Christians don't go there makes sense.

These are my thoughts about where Hell might be and how it fits in with the Lake of Fire described later in the Bible.

Any thoughts?

 

I don't think the lake of fire is in the earth, Phillip. I'm pretty sure it is before the throne of God. It may extend to earth when it appears (I don't know if it is there now) but it is definitely distinct from hell, the underworld.

 

a bottomless pit is a pit "without" a sure foundation.

like the house built on sand.

all carnal teachings of man concerning his understanding of the things of God are foundationless.

the teachings of satan are "foundationless"

 

What do you want, scripture?

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast is thrown into the lake of fire at the beginning of the millennium. Have we seen this anywhere else in scripture?

Daniel 7
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

The fire that the beast is thrown into issues forth in a stream from before the throne. In revelation, the beast is thrown into the lake of fire. Therefore the lake of fire is the stream od dire that issues forth before the throne. It is not hell, which already exists inside the earth.

 

James

Please study the description of those standing before the GWT. They are the dead. The spiritually dead, awaiting their final sentence—death—eternal death—the second death—to be eternally separated from God. Death is separation. There is no life here; no spiritual life. There is no believer here; no evidence of any believer here; and not any of you have provided any evidence of such. There are no believers at the GWT, and the onus remains on you to demonstrate that there are, not just to assume that there are.

The just will take part in the first resurrection, as you have posted. At that time they will receive their resurrection body. They will reign with Christ. There is no holding place, no temporary Hell for them. They will reign with Christ during the Millennial Kingdom. So your point is??

You are entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. You have no Scriptural basis to back it up. The rest of the dead, are those that are not included in the first resurrection. Obviously they are not only physically dead but spiritually dead. They await the second resurrection which will happen at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. It is the Resurrection of the Unjust which Jesus has spoken of in John 5. It is the unjust, the unsaved that will stand before God at this time. There are two resurrections, just as Christ described, one for the just, and the other for the unjust. They are separated by one thousand years as it is described here in Revelation 20. If the just are resurrected 1000 years previous to the unjust, why would they be judged with the unjust who will be raised 1000 years later for the very reason of being sentenced to the Lake of Fire. The reason is that the believers have their own judgement—the Judgement Seat of Christ (1Cor.3:11-15), which takes place immediately after the first resurrection and is for believers only. It is a judgement of works, which results in rewards and loss of rewards, and yet it has no bearing on one's salvation. No saved individual can lose their salvation. God does not lie.
DHK

 

DHK, you read a lot into the scripture that I don't see. I would love to study it, but what more is there to study? Perhaps you can show some scriptural examples to support your assertion that there is no christian standing before the throne on the last day?? I see Christ plainly asserting that believers WILL be raised up on the last day. How is there another day a thousand years later than the last day for unbelievers to be raised up on? Why does God tease each of these people who come out of hell with a meaningless searching in the book of life for their name, if there is no chance they will be in there? You are entitled to your opinion, but the judgment seat is going to sort it all out, brother. I just want us both to be able to stand before Him.

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You must be accounted wothy to stand before the Son of man. This is something that a believer is commanded to pray for! If you're not watching and praying, you will not stand before Him... This has nothing to do with losing salvation. Salvation is free by believing on Him, and you get it on the last day at the great white throne.

 

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (speaking to believers awaiting the resurrection of the just)

From Revelation 20 it should be evident to you that these 2 resurrections are 1000 years apart from each other--the same time period that the Judgement Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgement are.

Remember that a parable is an earthly story meant to teach a heavenly truth. What truth was Jesus trying to get across here?
This is a warning of the importance of watching and praying. Ask yourself: Are you ever worthy? I am not worthy of the grace of God. I am not worthy of God's redemption. I am a sinner guilty of the condemnation of God, deserving of God's wrath, deserving to spend an eternity in Hell. I am not worthy to stand before a holy and righteous God, no matter what I do. Salvation is not by works. Do you believe in a works salvation?? Salvation is all of grace, accepted by faith and faith alone. There is nothing that I can do to merit eternal life. I will never be "accounted worthy," for I am not worthy. I am a sinner--saved by grace. You must look at this passage and see what Jesus was teaching (his already saved) disciples.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
--Previous to these verses he gives some very practical advice of what to look for before Christ comes--some signs of his coming. Now he says to watch and pray. That is where the emphasis of this verse is. Watch and pray that we enter not into temptation. Watch and pray that we do not get entangled with the affirs of this world. Watch and pray that we do not take our eyes off the Lord; that we remain focused on doing the Lord's work, and putting him first in our lives. It has nothing to do with one's salvation, or the loss of it. It is a simple command to watch and pray. It does not imply that any Christian will not be worthy enough to enter into the Millennial Kingdom. That conclusion is a misapplication of Scripture. You are reading into this Scripture more than what it says.

And so?? This is a description of faith. What has that got to do with the price of tea in china?

You need a BIK button (Boy I'm Konfused). I have salvation right now, here on this earth. I know that if I died right now I would go straight to Heaven. I know that of a surety. I know that I have forgiveness of sins--past, present and future. They are all covered by the blood of Christ. I stand, not in my own righteousness, but in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. In that way, I stand perfectly holy before God. I therefore stand worthy to enter into the presence of God, now, and in this world to come. In reality I am not worthy and will never be worthy. Only the blood of Christ has accounted me worthy. Christ has made a propitiation for my sin. He paid the penalty that I don't have to pay. I, a guilty sinner, stand innocent before God, because the penalty of my sin was paid for by Christ. Therefore I will never suffer the penalty of ANY sin committed by me. When I die I will go to heaven. I will come back to this earth with Christ. I will reign with him. I will never stand at the Great White Throne Judgement. I will have already been at the Judgement Seat of Christ. There are two resurrections, and two judgements. I will only be at the first one. Unbelievers will only be at the second one. God is a just God. The GWT is simply a final sentencing for all those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of Life, which in this case are all those present at the GWT. Prove me wrong if you can. I don't believe you can. I am NOT part of the spiritually dead.
DHK

 

OK, without first answering everything you bring up, I must point out that you did not answer my question. How is the judgment seat of Christ the last day? The real konfusion stems from not separating the judgment seat of Christ from the last day. Just because you appear before Christ at the judgment seat, how do you know you will not again appear before the great white throne? If a believer is promised to be raised up on the last day, by what means do you assert that all Christians will be raised up before the last day?

I posted the verse about believing that He is a rewarder to show that if you are not working with your eye to the reward of reigning in His kingdom, you will not please God. This has nothing to do with eternal salvation, so asserting that you have salvation, I say Amen! Now race for the prize like Paul told you to. Just because Christ paid the penalty for your sin, doesn't mean He cannot chasten you for not living an obedient life now that you HAVE been saved!

 

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If a believer is promised to be raised up on the last day, by what means do you assert that all Christians will be raised up before the last day?
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Because those who have believed in tribulation into the millenium will have believed unto eternal life (the nation of Israel specifically), and will be resurrected on the last day, just prior to the Great White Throne judgement. You need to recognize, that the millenial reign there will be flesh and blood living on earth, to which Jesus Christ will reign over, not only physically, but SPIRITUALLY as well. The church has a much better promise, and that is the FIRST RESURRECTION. This is for ALL WHO ARE SAVED. Israel however, only experiences the millenial kingdom in their flesh, as we christians do today. During the millenial reign however, we (the church - the glory of Christ)will BE IN OUR GLORIFIED BODIES AS THE WIFE OF CHRIST (like the angels) and will FOREVER BE WITH OUR LORD. WE have already recieved our Judgement, and that generation who make it to the end of this world at the second coming, will remain in the flesh, but their SPIRITS will be REBORN. Then the last day (last day of the millenial reign) they will be raised up for the second resurrection. Why can you all not see this? God has not forgotten Israel, and as God has said, ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED. They indeed will be saved, those who are looking for him at his second coming, and they will reign with Christ as priests and kings (in the flesh) for 1000 years to which is the second death. This is not referring to the church. You need to separate the church from Israel. God has always dealt with Israel in the flesh, and the church in the spirit. Once you are able to see this, you will understand much better the millenial reign. Do you think that there will be people living on earth, who have not taken the mark, but have not been saved? I tell you, there will be, as we see these are those who are the GOATS being referred to and who are separated from the sheep. WE also see that Satan is loosed for a season, just before the 1000 year is up, and some go against the Lord Jesus Christ, even though they have Jesus Christ literally reigning over them, though Satan has a mark so as not to decieve the nations anymore. However, we do see that the nations do go against the Lord and His people in those days, as Gog and Magog. WE need to understand the scriptures in light of the WHOLE COUNSEL of God, not just pick one verse here and there because this is what causes false doctrines and beliefs.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle says:&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;God has always dealt with Israel in the flesh, and the church in the spirit.

Question, Michelle...what is your basis for this? What scriptures are you using to support this claim?

 

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Question, Michelle...what is your basis for this? What scriptures are you using to support this claim?
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The entirety of it - the whole counsel of God.


The Old testament against the New testament - all scripture.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle