hello fellow baptists

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Erasmus, Dec 15, 2005.

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hello fellow baptists

  1. What are your comments on Texas Baptist history?

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  2. Where do you thnk Texas Baptists are going?

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  1. Erasmus

    Erasmus
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    I just wanted to say hello to everyone. My name is Joe Early and I am a professor of Baptist History at the University of the Cumberlands. I look forward to several good historical and theological conversations. For more information on me go to my website http://www.baptisthistorybooks.com
     
  2. SaggyWoman

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    Interesting poll.
     
  3. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
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    I dunno. Two SBC conventions in one state seems a bit much.
     
  4. Hardsheller

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    Baptist General Convention of Texas will decline in the future. The alternative convention is reporting 1725 affiliated churches and that number continues to rise all the time.
     
  5. rlvaughn

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    Dr. Early, somehow I missed this thread. Welcome to the Baptist Board.

    Your "A Texas Baptist Power Struggle: The Hayden Controversy" is very interesting. I could hardly put it down. It didn't put B. H. Carroll in as bad a light as I thought it might, considering John Storey's foreword - "S. A. Hayden, certainly a contentious and divisive sort, emerges from these pages somewhat more favorably than usual, while B. H. Carroll, a giant among Texas Baptists, comes off as less than saintly, a man determined to have his way and prepared to behave in an unprincipled manner to get it." That's probably just a matter of perspective though, since us non-SBC Texas Baptists may tend to have Carroll in an already bad light!

    Concerning the BGC/SBT, I think Hardsheller's prediction could well be correct. But I think it will be quite some time. The 1725 affiliated churches could be a little deceptive in that I think many of them may be dually aligned with the BGC and SBT. While I have a number of disagreements with SBC policy, I view most of the churches I know as much more conservative than the CBF (on average). I also wonder if some of the impetus for the BGCT/SBC split has to do with that wonderful Texas spirit of independence?
     
  6. rsr

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    Welcome to the board. Sorry I missed your original post. :(
     
  7. Squire Robertsson

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    What are the choices you meant to give under the headings?
     
  8. Bible-boy

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    I can't answer the poll because of the way you set it up. You did not ask us a question and then give us multiple answers to pick from. The two choices you gave are both questions. I guess we could talk about those two questions here in the associated thread, but it makes no sense in the poll for me to select one or the other of the options you provided. I look forward to discussing with you in the future.
     
  9. rlvaughn

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    Here are the two questions:
    What are your comments on Texas Baptist history?
    Where do you think Texas Baptists are going?

    I think what we have is a first time user who selected "add poll" instead of "start topic". Rather than complain about it, we could discuss the questions. What say ye?
     
  10. Barnabas H.

    Barnabas H.
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    OK, let's do that! [​IMG]
     
  11. rlvaughn

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    Going a little further with the idea of the two questions...

    I have recently read "A Texas Baptist Power Struggle: The Hayden Controversy" by Joseph E. Early, Jr. It is an interesting study of the controversy(ies) that led up to the split of the Baptist General Convention of Texas (1899-1900) and the organization of the Baptist Missionary Association of Texas (1900-01). As a Southern Baptist, he does not follow up later events of the BMAT. But he concludes his book with a thought provoking chapter comparing and contrasting the BGCT/BMAT split and the recent BGCT/SBT split.

    One little known fact about the 1900 split is that the BMAT comprised a very serious threat to the "life and livelihood" of the BGCT. When one looks today at one body possibly 10X* larger than the other, the BMAT might seem like a drop in a 25 gallon barrel. Not so. Early put it this way, "...initially it appeared as if the BGCT was hemorrhaging members..."

    W. H. Parks of Cleburne wrote his "History of the Baptist Missionary Association of Texas" in the early 20th century. One might suspect partisan motives when he notes the 1901 meeting of the BMAT had 244 churches represented - 48 more churches than represented at the 1896 BGCT meeting in Houston that tried S. A. Hayden for opposing the work of the BGCT. But Dr. Early compares the meeting of both in 1901 - the BGCT registered 1672 messengers, while the BMAT seated more than 2000! Perhaps the motive was partisan, but evidently not partisan misrepresentation. By 1904 the BMAT had grown to 563 churches when they met at the Dallas Fairgrounds that year. In 2003 the BMAT had 433 churches.

    *I don't know the present size of the BGCT. Early wrote that they had 4658 churches in 1995.
     
  12. rsr

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    Executive Director Charles Wade reported "close to 5700 churches and missions" at the BGCT's annual meeting last month. The BWA listed 5,652 BGCT churches as of May 1.
     
  13. Erasmus

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    Sorry that I have not posted since my original. I had to grade 230 finals and then we went to Florida for a vacation.
    I think the situation in Texas is dire. The BGCT has the membership and the denominational machinery to do the job, but has monetary problems. The SBCT has the money, but a large majority of the churches are duely aligned and thus not enough members to do the job. We are also seeing a growing number of divinity schools in Texas. In some ways this is good, but also problematic. THere are just not enough students to go around. I really do not think both can do the job as well as they did as one. There are doctrinal matters, but I believe power is the main problem. Everybody wants to set doctrine. By looking at your posts, I guess some of you have read my Hayden book. There are some really insightful comments. I hope everyone has a great Christmas!!
     

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