Heresy #15 and #16 - Audible confession

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Nov 28, 2004.

  1. LadyEagle

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    The above quote from another thread says these are heresies. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    It is not biblical (there is no Bible verse that says something bad will happen if you think it will). That is new age paranoia, making SELF god and in control of the event of life by power of positive thinking or word of faith.

    Heresy? Don't know. Garbage? Yeahsureyabetcha.
     
  3. JBE

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    This is Heresy

    So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God Romans 8:8
     
  4. blackbird

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    The power of positive confession

    Its like the fella who jumped from the top of the Empire State building---he got about halfway down and someone from an open window heard him--confessing--

    "So far, so good!"
    "So far, so good!"
    "So far, so good!"

    Guess what?? No matter how "Positive" he was---there was that "sudden stop!"

    Positive confession of "I am not sick!"

    or

    "I am healed!"

    I've heard WOFers positively confessing----a headache---"I do not have a headache! I do not have a headache! Headache begone!!!"

    #1--they're lyin' to themselves--in that they DO have a headache

    and

    #2--The headache disappears on its on after a few hours---and then they say---"See, there!! Its gone!"----when all along it would have ran its course anyway!!

    I've heard people confessing that with the Common Cold!! "I do not have a Cold!"

    "Then what is it, if it ain't a Cold??"

    "UMMMMMMM, sinus drainage????????!!!!"

    Positive confession won't work on---say---a "nasty" Melanoma stareing you in the face!!!
     
  5. OldRegular

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    To adequately respond to the query by Lady Eagle it is first necessary to understand the origin of the listed heresies #s 14 & 16 and the theology of those who are guilty of them. These heresies are those of the word-faith movement and actually spring from their heretical view of God and the Atonement which I believe necessary to show before I can adequately respond to the two listed. Those choosing to respond on this topic or other related topics should first read the referenced post on the General Baptist Discussions Forum, the Paul Crouch Topic, page 10.

    Heresy #1)

    “He’s[God is] very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6’2”, 6’3”, who weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, [and] has a [hand] span of nine inches across.” [Kenneth Copeland, quoted by Hanegraff, Christianity in Crisis, page 121]

    “God spoke Adam into existence in authority with words [Genesis 1:26, 28]. These words struck Adam’s body in the face. His body and God’s were exactly the same size.” [Kenneth Copeland, quoted by Hanegraff, Christianity in Crisis, page 379]

    “He [God] measured out heaven with a nine inch span ... The distance between my thumb and my finger is not quite nine inches. So I know He’s bigger than me, thank God. Amen.” [Jerry Savelle quoted by Hanegraff, Christianity in Crisis, page 122]

    Heresy #2)
    Faith is the literal substance that God used to create the universe, and He transported that faith with His words. Here, essentially, is what God did. God filled His words with faith. He used His words as containers to hold His faith and contain that spiritual force and transport it out there into the vast darkness by saying, ‘light, be’! That's the way God transported His faith causing creation and transformation. The way that He created the world was that, first of all, he conceived something on the inside of Him. He conceived, He had an image, He had a picture.

    Heresy #3)
    All things, including God, are subject to this ‘force of faith’ beause it works according to spiritual ‘laws’ of the universe. There are laws of the world of the spirit. The spiritual world and its laws are more powerful than the physical world . The world and the physical forces governing it were created by the power of faith--a spiritual force. It is this force of faith which makes the laws of the spirit world function. The force of faith is released by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation.

    Heresy #4)
    The greatest thing God conceived of and created was an exact duplicate of himself. This duplicate god--named Adam-was God manifested in the flesh.

    Heresy #10)
    Although Jesus declared that he walked with God and that God was in Him, he never actually claimed to be God. In fact, during his three years of public ministry Jesus did not stand in a class by himself.... He was ministering on earth as a human being -- a prophet anointed with the Holy Spirit. Jesus remained sinless so He could redeem men from their Satanic natures.

    Heresy #11)
    In order to redeem humanity, Jesus had to die spiritually as well as physically. When He died spiritually, he died in the same way that Adam died. In other words, He lost His divine nature and was given the nature of Satan. Jesus’ death on the cross and His shed blood did not atone for our sins. The atonement took place in hell through the devil's torturing of Jesus’ spirit for three days and three nights. Unfortunately for Satan, Jesus was taken to hell ‘illegally’ because He had never sinned. This ‘technicality’ enabled God to use His ‘force of faith’ to revive Jesus’ spirit, restore Jesus’ divine nature, and resurrect Jesus’ body. Through the resurrection process Jesus was ‘born again’.

    The above quote from another thread says these are heresies. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please. </font>[/QUOTE]Heresy #14)
    To obtain specific desires, Christians must do three things: (1) loose the power of the “force of faith” by speaking or positively confessing whatever is wanted (e.g., ‘I am healed’, ‘I am not sick’, etc.); (2) believe that whatever has been confessed will definitely be received; and (3) ignore or look beyond the visible reality (i.e, remaining sickness, low finances, etc.) and continue claiming what has been confessed. :confused:

    First it should be recognized that there is no such thing as the “force of faith”. That is just a heretical invention of the word-faith teachers who make God subject to this “force of faith” [Heresy #3]. Scripture related to paryer which glorify God, not man and his use of some mystical “force of faith”, are as follows:

    John 15:7 [KJV]; If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

    1John 5:14, [KJV]; And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

    James 4:3, [NKJV]; You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend [it] on your pleasures.

    1 Corinthians 12:7-10 [KJV}
    7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
    8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
    9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
    10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

    Heresy #16)
    The power of audible confession is so great that sometimes a person can unknowingly bring tragedy upon themselves by making negative confessions. For example, a woman who is mugged may have actually caused that mugging if at any time prior to the experience she made comments like, ‘I live in such a dangerous part of the city that I'm afraid I’ll be mugged’. The woman should have been saying, ‘I will not be mugged’. Similarly, someone who jokingly says ‘I feel like I'm going crazy’ may actually become insane. :confused:

    This heresy, in effect, gives words or thoughts the power to cause someone to perform criminal acts. Scripture showing the proper attitude of the “true believer” are as follows:

    James 4:15, [KJV; For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

    Romans 8:28, [KJV];And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
     
  6. LadyEagle

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    See, OldRegular, I purposefully didn't link to that or mention WoF because doing so would automatically skew the responses. Now that everyone knows how this originated, the posts are somewhat predictable. Oh, well. :rolleyes:
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    I disagree. Jesus said if we have faith only the size of a mustard seed, we can move a mountain. Our faith must be in God, though, not in ourselves or in karma, etc. Likewise, I believe there is a force of doubt. And I also believe our words have more importance than what is usually taught in Baptist churches.
     
  8. Marcia

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    I disagree. Jesus said if we have faith only the size of a mustard seed, we can move a mountain. Our faith must be in God, though, not in ourselves or in karma, etc. Likewise, I believe there is a force of doubt. And I also believe our words have more importance than what is usually taught in Baptist churches. </font>[/QUOTE]But Jesus doesn't teach that faith is a force that we wield for what we want. This is what the WF teachers say. Faith becomes like a magic wand or a power.

    Also, just because we have faith does not mean we get what we want, which is what they teach.

    Now I realize what you mean by saying OldRegular "skewed" the responses by referring to these as WF teachings. Well, LE, you may have been able to tell, too many people know about these teachings and were even guessing on other threads where you posted other heresies which WF teacher said it. That's because the heresies of the WF movement are no secret; they are actually pretty well known and recognized. You can't disuguise these teachings; I also recognize the New Thought origins of some of them and the New Age parallels as I used to believe the New Age variations of some of these. These teachings are straight from the pit of hell. If these are not doctrines of demons, I don't know what are, especially because they use the Bible and sound so Christian up to a point.
     
  9. Marcia

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    I disagree. Jesus said if we have faith only the size of a mustard seed, we can move a mountain. Our faith must be in God, though, not in ourselves or in karma, etc. Likewise, I believe there is a force of doubt. And I also believe our words have more importance than what is usually taught in Baptist churches. </font>[/QUOTE]But Jesus doesn't teach that faith is a force that we wield for what we want. This is what the WF teachers say. Faith becomes like a magic wand or a power.

    Also, just because we have faith does not mean we get what we want, which is what they teach.

    Our words have an effect but they don't have magical powers; we can't use words as if they are energies or magical forces. But WF teaches that words can actually create things, or attract things to you. This is taught in the New Age as affirmations (it comes from New Thought). You say something over and over or write it over and over in order to make it manifest from a higher plane into the material plane. This is actually sorcery.
     
  10. Marcia

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    Now I realize what you mean by saying OldRegular "skewed" the responses by referring to these as WF teachings. Well, LE, you may have been able to tell, too many people know about these teachings and were even guessing on other threads where you posted other heresies which WF teacher said it. That's because the heresies of the WF movement are no secret; they are actually pretty well known and recognized. You can't disuguise these teachings; I also recognize the New Thought origins of some of them and the New Age parallels as I used to believe the New Age variations of some of these. These teachings are straight from the pit of hell. If these are not doctrines of demons, I don't know what are, especially because they use the Bible and seem to sound Christian.
     
  11. JonathanDT

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    Bummer, I thought this thread would be about the heresy you must audibly pray to "receive" Christ into your heart to be saved.
     

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