Heresy #2 - Faith and the Word

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Nov 28, 2004.

  1. LadyEagle

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    The above quote from another thread says this is a heresy. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please.
     
  2. blackbird

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    Why does God need faith??

    This heresy is so far out in "Outer Space" that its pitiful!!!!!----there is not one shread of biblical evidence---not one word from scripture---not one letter in all the Bible that proves that this is a true statement!!
     
  3. LadyEagle

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    blackbird, it doesn't say God needs faith.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    As I have noted before in order to adequately respond to the query by Lady Eagle it is first necessary to understand the origin of the listed heresies and the theology of those who are guilty of them. These heresies are those of the word-faith movement and actually spring from their heretical view of God and the Atonement. I show their heretical view of God before I respond to the two listed. Those choosing to respond on this topic should first read the referenced post on the General Baptist Discussions Forum, the Paul Crouch Topic, page 10

    Heresy #1)

    “He’s[God is] very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6’2”, 6’3”, who weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, [and] has a [hand] span of nine inches across.” [Kenneth Copeland, quoted by Hanegraff, Christianity in Crisis, page 121]

    “God spoke Adam into existence in authority with words [Genesis 1:26, 28]. These words struck Adam’s body in the face. His body and God’s were exactly the same size.” [Kenneth Copeland, quoted by Hanegraff, Christianity in Crisis, page 379]

    “He [God] measured out heaven with a nine inch span ... The distance between my thumb and my finger is not quite nine inches. So I know He’s bigger than me, thank God. Amen.” [Jerry Savelle quoted by Hanegraff, Christianity in Crisis, page 122]

    Heresy #3)
    All things, including God, are subject to this ‘force of faith’ beause it works according to spiritual ‘laws’ of the universe. There are laws of the world of the spirit. The spiritual world and its laws are more powerful than the physical world . The world and the physical forces governing it were created by the power of faith--a spiritual force. It is this force of faith which makes the laws of the spirit world function. The force of faith is released by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation.

    The above quote from another thread says this is a heresy. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please. </font>[/QUOTE]We see from Heresy #3 above that God is subject to this mystical “force of faith” which means that God is not really sovereign, therefore, He is not really God. This mystical “force of faith” is really god. If that isn’t heresy, what is?

    Heresy #2 tells us that God created the universe out of something that already existed. Furthermore, the idea that faith is a literal substance is the result of a complete misunderstanding of Hebrews 11:1. Hebrews 11:3 tells us: “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” No mention of faith filled words here.

    Scripture also tells us that God created by His will not His faith filled words.

    Revelation 4:11, [NKJV]; You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created.

    Scripture also tells us that God created all things by Jesus Christ, not some mystical substance called faith.

    Ephesians 3:9 [KJV]; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    Finally read Genesis 1 and see if the word faith appears!
     
  5. LadyEagle

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    But the Scripture also says that without faith it is impossible to please God.
     
  6. Bartimaeus

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    LadyEagle,
    The quote states that God used "Faith". God does not need faith. As we study the attributes of God, we understand He knows all and sees all. The verse quoted above, Heb 11:1 speaks of faith as a (for the lack of a better synopsis, please forgive my futile effort and suggestion) position of the heart and mind that God gives to a man so he can believe. God does not need this. I am with Blackbird and OldReg on this. These people need help they are in serious trouble scripturally.
    Thanks -----Bart
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    Well, I agree, ya'll, but, as stated on the other thread, there was a method here to my madness. Now that OldRegular spilled the beans about WoF and skewed the responses, I'll take my marbles and go home. Oh, I am home. Well, in that case, I'll go to bed. [​IMG] Good night, ya'll.
     
  8. Marcia

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    Yes it does:
    This is one of their big teachings - God used faith to create. It's ridiculous. What would God have faith in -- He's God! But they use this so that they can say since we are like God, we can use faith to create things with our thoughts and words. This is one of their most essential teachings. This is very similar to the New Thought churches like Unity and the New Age that teach that we create our own reality and can draw things to us by thinking of them or saying them. This technically is part of sorcery.

    What do you mean, LE, that he "skewed the responses?"
     
  9. robycop3

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    Faith, as defined in the dictionary, is the firm belief in something for which there is no proof. The Scriptural definition of faith is:

    |
    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.(Hebrews 11:1)

    WE have the evidence of the SEEN, plus the Scriptures, upon which to base our faith. None of us have knowingly seen Jesus, but we have faith in Him as Lord and Savior.

    Is there ANYTHING God hasn't SEEN...or MADE? When the Scriptures refer to the faith of God, they're referring to the ability He's given us to have faith. He WANTS us to worship and believe by faith. How easy it would be for Him to show Himself to the world and prove He is God.

    Whereas WE have faith, GOD has empirical knowledge. He's made everything that exists. He knows how He made each and every quark. He knows the properties He gave each of them. He knows how He formed every last atom in existence, and how He formed every object in the universe from them, according to His will. And He knows He's given us the ability to have faith in the unseen.

    All power in the universe is GOD'S power. His power makes the stars burn. His power fuels gravity. The "substance" He used to make all creation and to control it from the gitgo through today is His POWER.
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    Because the moment it is known that WOF is the origin, the typical reponses become knee-jerk responses, IMO. I should have posted these in the All Other Forum.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    That doesn't mean that faith is a literal substance, rather faith is an attitude of the mind and will. Anyhow, that Scripture is speaking of man pleasing God, not God bowing to the "force of faith". [​IMG]
     
  12. blackbird

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    LadyEagle says, "I should have posted these in the All Other forum."

    See!! It would have made no difference if you had posted the heresys on the Moon---every one of them(heresys you posted) are easily recognizible as the the heresys of the WOFers!!

    LE??? How's that for edification???

    [ November 29, 2004, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
     

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