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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by vermae, Mar 22, 2006.
What do you think about bringing Hip Hop into the church?
Are you serious or just trying to be funny. Hip Hop is straight out of the pits of hell [not hades].
Vermae, in what way? What is the purpose?
Welcome to the board Vermae. We in our youth group sometimes listen to Christian artists such as: Cross Movement, T-Bone, Gospel Gangstaz, and several others. I've personally talked with CM artist 'Flame' he has a great heart for God he is currently in Bible College taking 'Biblical Theology' at a Baptist seminary. He has a great heart for God. As far as "bringing" it into church we sometimes listen to them during youth group but on Sunday mornings and things like that we don't listen to them. I'm not sure it necessarily belongs in say a church service but using it on youth night and things like that is great. God gave those guys talent and instead of trying to get rich like 50 Cent, or Jay-Z they serving God with their talents.
"...singing and making melody in your heart as unto the Lord"
Question: How much melody do you get from hip hop?
Hip Hop is such a broad term. Many gospel artists that I would consider appropriate for sunday morning worship have traces of hip hop in them. Kirk Franklin and Yolanda Adams, for example. BTW, OR, how exactly is their music straight out of the pits of hell? Other CCM artists I think are appropriate for youth functions, etc. If the music is praising the Lord then I do not see a problem with it. It is great seeing people use their God givem talents for Him.
After seeing what I describe in my above post I think they certainly are making a melody in their heart. No Hip-Hop isn't "singing" but it is a joyful noise.(After reading FP post I realize Hip-Hop isn't exactly Rap so I suppose some musical styles within Hip-Hop are singing). BTW the deaf 85 year old deacon on the second pew isn't exactly "singing" either but he is making a joyful noise to the Lord.
Are we talking about hip hop or rap? This is what I mean by a broad term.
The key word in my post was MELODY, not singing. And how may we sing without melody?
How would we define "making a joyful noise" from the Bible? Is it "anything goes?"
Does hip hop have a melody? If it does, I'm thinking of the wrong thing. Maybe I'm thinking of rap.
You tell me, why should I drop the hymns like How Great Thou Art for hip hop or rap?
Nobody said drop hymns for anything, but that does not mean that there cannot be a place for other types of music. "Victory", by Yolanda Adams, is a wonderful song that glorfies the Lord. Why can't it, and others, have a place in church also?
Lyrics to "Victory"
I got, got the victory, I got the sweet, sweet victory in Jesus yes I do He is a mighty conqueror, In him I will trust all my battle's He'll fight I got, got the victory, I got the sweet, sweet victory in Jesus for me He died but He rose on the third day that's why I have true victory everyday
Truly I been through the storm and rain
I know everything about heartache and pain
But God carried me through it all
Without His protection I'd surely fall
I been broke without a dime to my name
but all my bills got paid 'cause I called on Jesus name, You can't tell me that God isn't real 'cause I got the victory and that's why I'm still here
I'm not worried 'bout material things I don't have I just rest 'cause I'm sure in my savior's care 'cause I know that my blessing is on the way
I can't see it right now but I stand by faith
I fought many ,many battle's in His name
I held up the bloodstained banner and proclaim
that Jesus is the Truth and the Light
believe it when I say He will make it alright
J. D., you are taking Eph. 5:19 out of its context and using it to say something it does not say.
Ephesians 5:18-20, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;"
The interpretation you imply above breaks down on two levels:
1. The verse tells us what to include not what to exclude. The exhortation to make melody in your heart does not amount to exhortation to omit from your worship anything that is not melodious.
2. The verse's primary emphasis is on a life that is filled with the Spirit, not on dictating what worship in the church should and should not be like.
I may not reject your overall premise, but please use a different Scripture to support it.
I didn't offer an interpretation, I asked specific questions:
1. How would we define "making a joyful noise" from the Bible? Is it "anything goes?"
2. Does hip hop have a melody?
3. Why should I drop the hymns like How Great Thou Art for hip hop or rap?
I think Helen was getting warm when she asked what the purpose was. Still, though, I am not aware of any Biblical prohibition against a particular genre of music. While I believe scores of other factors must weigh in on the decision, I cannot from the Scripture demonstrate that one musical genre or another is prohibited.
Statements that a certain genre does not glorify the Lord are grounded in mere speculation.
I'm not in favor of "either-or." Bringing in anything new does not mean the abandonment of all the old. I'm not even making a hip-hop argument here. Our kids this past week sung "How Great is Our God" (new) AND "How Great Thou Art" (a bit older...though it's not an ancient song).
Let's teach them the grand hymns of the faith and a new song to sing.
Your questions gave away your interpretation. Here's how:
Your question is rhetorical. You may have wanted an answer to engender discussion, but your current position is quite obviously that you do not believe there is much "melody" in Hip Hop. As such, you believe Eph. 5:19 excludes Hip Hop. It does not. Some Hip Hop selections (secular and Christian) do have melodies. My question for you is, "What difference does it make?" What bearing does the existence of a melody in Hip Hop have on Eph. 5:19?
And how does Eph. 5:19 lead to your questions?
Finally, I have yet to read any post on this thread where anyone suggested you should omit How Great Thou Art from your worship repertoire. Why should anyone else exchange their Hip Hop for your How Great Thou Art?
Deleted. Too quick on the trigger.
"Your question is rhetorical. You may have wanted an answer to engender discussion, but your current position is quite obviously that you do not believe there is much "melody" in Hip Hop. "
No, I was not implying that hip hop does not have melody. I was trying to distinguish between hip hop and rap.
"Some Hip Hop selections (secular and Christian) do have melodies."
That was one of my questions. Thank you for answering it.
Now for the other question: How can we define "joyful noise" by the Bible?
BTW this thread belongs in the General Forum, this has nothing to do with theology.
I'll answer this one, but I've not received answers for very many questions I've asked. (Like what bearing your questions have on Eph. 5:19 and whether or not Eph. 5:19 prohibits any genre of music.
We define joyful noise quite literally and quite naturally. You know what a noise is. And "joyful" just refers to the motive and spirit with which the noise is uttered. Several modern translations have put it, "joyful shout." Does that help?