His Royal Priesthood

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ray Berrian, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Are Christian ministers and laity ' . . . priest unto God and His Father?' Apparently, every true Christian has a literal place and is an actual being within His church. [Revelation 1:6] Though we do not fully understand the fact that we are also 'kings' within His Kingdom, we must accept it as true because it is His words that prove it to us. Because of His love for fallen human beings, and His inner cleansing [vs. 5] of our souls, we have a new alliance with Jesus in His mind and heart.

    Under the former covenant the Israelites and the Gentiles in the "Court of the Gentiles" did not have the closest of access to God in the Holy of Holies. But this all changed when Jesus died on the Cross. The veil was rent in twain. That beautiful drapery that separated the people from the Ark of the Covenant and His Presence was severed from the top to the bottom. The meaning is-- that we now have direct access to Almighty God, without need of a go-between other than Christ. [I Timothy 2:5]

    Every Christian---everyone who loves Jesus has become a 'royal priesthood' unto the Lord of the Kingdom. [I Peter 2:9] As Christian priests we are to ' . . . show forth the praises to Him'. [vs. 9e] Worship is becoming to Christian believers because we are His people.

    We were wandering sinners and ' . . . in time past were not a people' but now because of our faith in Jesus [John 3:16] ' . . . are now the people of God.' [vs. 10]

    Rev. Dr. William Rufus Nicholson under the sermon title, "The Priesthood of the Church of God" offered these words at the opening of the Fourth General Council of the Reformed Episcopal Church in Emmanuel Church, Ottawa, Ontario, on July 12 1876.

    After preaching about the intercession of Christ's Priesthood he said, 'This is His Priesthood of Intercession; and in this priesthood His believing people may and do have part. Having been delivered in His deliverance, we in Him do now appear before the Father in the same fragrance which is His, pleading both for ourselves and for the salvation of others. Precisely because He is a Priest in Heaven, we also are priests. The branch is in the vine; the believer is in his Savior. As He is, so are we, even in this world. He offers up there the spiritual sacrifices of praise and intercession; we offer up here the spiritual sacrifices of praise and intercession. And both He and we offer them up on the same one ground of His own past sufferings.' "Ambitious To Be Well-Pleasing" The Reformed Episcopal Publication Society, 1986, p. 24. {end quote}

    In the Petrine expression of truth also there is no elitist group who are separated from the Christian congregation. We all have equal standing in the Presence of God having come to Him and having been accepted by Christ through His mercy. ' . . . now we have obtained mercy.' [I Peter 2:10d]

    Some priests, ministers and elders may understand more in the spiritual realm, but each Christian priest has more than perfect access to Jesus as duly noted in Hebrews 4:15-16.
    The Book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who were tempted about defecting from the Christian faith and were very familiar as to the Aaronic and Levitical Priesthood.
    In Hebrews 4:14 we learn that we as Christian have ' . . . the great High Priest Jesus Who is our Advocate. [I John 2:1-2]

    The writer of the Book of Hebrews does not say, "Let me therefore come boldly to the throne of grace {on your behalf/the congregation) that you may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

    What he does say is 'Let us {priests} therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.' [Hebrews 4:16]

    Each Christian has direct access to God, the Triune Being, because the Old Covenant is past, [Hebrews 8:6 & 13], and the new covenant has been activated since ' . . . the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.' [Mark 15:38]

    Most often we do not think of ourselves as being priests, but in reality we are priests unto Almighty God.
     
  2. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    This past Friday evening, I taught on the priesthood of the faithful to two catechumens (those preparing for baptism) and seven candidates for full communion (Protestants who seek to be reconciled with the Church).

    We are priests because, in Christ, we are able to offer spiritual sacrifice - especially through the suffering of our bodies (Romans 12:1-2). We are prophets because, in Christ, we are to proclaim the Gospel in word and deed. We are kings because, in Christ, we spread the reign of Christ by doing battle and ruling. We battle sin and spiritual forces aligned against the kingdom, establishing the reign of Christ in the hearts of mankind.
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    "WE", Carson, or just Catholics?

    Honestly wanting an honest answer on your thoughts and not baiting.

    Diane
     
  4. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    'Carson Weber,

    You said, 'We are priests because, in Christ, we are able to offer spiritual sacrifice -
    especially through the suffering of our bodies (Romans 12:1-2).'

    Ray is saying, 'I do not see any suffering in our bodies found in Romans 12:1-2. I was and is still a joy for me to serve the Lord in this lifetime. Perhaps you are referring to clergy on foreign fields who suffer and are tortured for the cause of Jesus.'

    You said, 'We are prophets because, in Christ, we are to proclaim the Gospel in word and
    deed.'

    Ray is saying, 'The last prophet to my knowledge was John the Baptist. But, I must admit that there were apostles of our Lord. I agree that we must preach and also live the life of the indwelling Christ in our personal lives.

    Carson said, 'We are kings because, in Christ, we spread the reign of Christ by doing battle and ruling. We battle sin and spiritual forces aligned against the kingdom, establishing the reign of Christ in the hearts of mankind.'

    Ray is saying, 'Your above paragraph is perfect. It was insightful too.

    I sure wish you were teaching and bring Christians into the Lutheran Church, especially where they still preach and teach the Christian message of personal salvation, or some other Bible believing Christian fellowship.

    I would wager that about five Catholics out of 1,000 have ever heard that they are priest unto the Lord.

    Best regards,
    Ray
     
  5. thessalonian

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    "I would wager that about five Catholics out of 1,000 have ever heard that they are priest unto the Lord."

    I would bet you would be wrong because I would bet that I have heard that verse where Peter speaks of that every single year of my life and had it preached to me every single year of my life in the Catholic Church that we are priests. You are simply wrong Ray.

    Blessings though
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    RC historians themselves - "admit" that the RC priesthood was NOT handed to us from the NT saints - they "evolved" over time.

    So we clearly see this as another case of Error introduced by Catholicism to the Christian Church.


    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Why is that? Clearly it is because there is no longer any earthly priesthood. It ended along with the system of animal sacrifices – at the cross.

    In the NT the focus shifts to the Heavenly sanctuary, the heavenly priesthood and the heavenly sacrifice - the blood of Christ which Christ "offers once for all time" Heb 10.

    Hopefully our RC brethren will not find "details" that actually support the truth - to be a reason to take offense.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Harley4Him

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    So what? The NT "evolved" over time too. Or maybe you think it sprang "fully written" from the head Ellen White, the Adventist "Mary". :rolleyes:

    PS - the "quotes" don't actually mean anything
     
  9. BobRyan

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Harley - always good for a laugh! :D

    But now - back to the serious subject of this thread - point and counter point. Salient points for those that can read and have the motivation to understand. The RC sources show - that the priesthood of the traditions of man - was not practiced by the NT saints.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    thessalonian,

    Ray said, 'I would wager that about five Catholics out of 1,000 have ever heard that
    they are priest unto the Lord.'

    You said,'I would bet you would be wrong because I would bet that I have heard that
    verse where Peter speaks of that every single year of my life and had it
    preached to me every single year of my life in the Catholic Church that we
    are priests. You are simply wrong Ray.

    Ray is saying, 'My wife was baptized as a baby at Holy Rosary Church in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. I asked her if she ever heard that Catholics were priests unto the Lord. Her honest answer was no. She said, 'How would they believe that because only men can become priests.'

    You heard about the priesthood of all believers before you defected from a Protestant, Christian denomination. You were non-Catholic early on, correct?
     
  11. thessalonian

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    "You were non-Catholic early on, correct? "

    Nope. Your wife must have been sleeping.
     
  12. thessalonian

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    Ray,

    Quite apparently your wife didn't pay much attention when she was Catholic. That may have been her problem rather than Catholic teaching itself. Here are some quotes that prove her wrong.


    Pope Leo the Great
    There is a common dignity as the apostle Peter says in these words: "And you are built up as living stones into spiritual houses, a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices which are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." And again: "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of election."
    For all, regenerated in Christ, as made kings by the sign of the cross. They are consecrated priests by the oil of the Holy Spirit, so that beyond the special service of our ministry as priests, all spiritual and mature Christians know that they are a royal race and are sharers in the office of the priesthood.

    Current Catechism

    The baptized, by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood." 209

    941 Lay people share in Christ's priesthood: ever more united with him, they exhibit the grace of Baptism and Confirmation in all dimensions of their personal family, social and ecclesial lives, and so fulfill the call to holiness addressed to all the baptized.


    1120 The ordained ministry or ministerial priesthood is at the service of the baptismal priesthood. 38

    1132 The Church celebrates the sacraments as a priestly community structured by the baptismal priesthood and the priesthood of ordained ministers.

    I could go on.

    I will look up more later if you like.
     
  13. Dan Stiles

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    Are you saying, Ray, that Paul was all wet when he talked about the gift of prophecy?
    ...And John, son of Zebedee was not being prophetic in The Revelation?
    ...And Paul's letter to the Romans, particularly the last half of chapter one, was merely historic and not prophetic?
    ...And that the entire New Testament - written after John the baptist's death - is void of prophecy?
    ...And that Joel 2:28 was completely fulfilled before Pentecost?
    ...And, most interestingly, that Jesus never prophecied?

    Are you sure John the Baptist was the last prophet?
    ...Or did you mean he was the last prophet of the Old Covenant? (If so, why?)
    ...or do we perhaps have a different definition of the terms prophet and prophecy?
     
  14. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Dan Stiles,

    You said, 'Are you sure John the Baptist was the last prophet?
    ...Or did you mean he was the last prophet of the Old Covenant? (If so,
    why?)

    Ray is saying, 'Yes, I mean that the Baptist was the last prophet before the coming of the Apostolate. The Baptist preached the kingdom of God as did the Major and Minor O.T. prophets.

    There was an intertestamental period between when the Prophet Malachi prophecied until John the Baptist became the forerunner of Christ. Some scholars say four hundred years took place without any new prophetic utterance.'

    You said, '...or do we perhaps have a different definition of the terms prophet and
    prophecy?

    If I preach about the rapture of the church in I Thess. 4:17 I am prophetic by preaching the truth, but I am not a prophet. A pastor . . . .yes. There has been no added new prophetic truth since the closing of the N.T. canon and the Book of Revelation.

    Does this help?
     
  15. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    thessalonian,

    I am sure that the average Catholic has not read Pope Leo the Great or your most recent catechism.

    I have attended a Catholic Church on occasion, but never heard any significant preaching in the homily. On on Sunday at the mass the priest said, "No homily this morning, read your bulletin, that's the homily for today." He did, however, magically transform the wine and the wafer.
     
  16. Dan Stiles

    Dan Stiles
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    Not really, because there is prophecy included in the New Testament, all of which was written, and most of which was experienced, after John the Baptist was beheaded.
     
  17. thessalonian

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    Do you expect to hear it every Sunday Ray? There's a whole Bible to preach on rather than the favorite verses that Protestant pastors focus on. The Church makes sure we get the whole thing over three years. The Catechism is widely distrubuted and it's use is encouraged. Further it is the basis of catechetical teaching for the Church. How many people have read it? I don't know. But you seem to think the Church doesnt try to hide it by any means. Here are just a few websites that I easily found and could find many more that express this teaching.

    http://www.daughtersofstpaul.com/growinginfaith/basicqas/creed/creedpart1_51.html
    http://www.leaflets.on.ca/church.htm
    \
    Here’s one from a priest:

    http://www.sainthenry.org/corner/ps.htm

    Another article:

    http://www.wcr.ab.ca/catechism/cat85.shtml

    I had little difficulty finding just a few websites that teach this doctrine and could find many more. There is no reason to believe that it is not taught in the Churches either but Ray will persist because it allows him to wallow in his bigotry and ignorance as demonstrated by his little one line derogatory comments.

    I was taught this teaching at a very early age. I have heard it many times. But Ray says he knows better than thess because he has been to Church a few times and it just isn’t taught much. How many CCC classes have you been to Ray. How many RCIA classes. How many adult educatoin classes and Bible studies (yes we do have them)? How many books on Catholicism have you read. Every one that teaches about Catholicism that I have read has this teaching in it. My point about Leo the Great was that this has been a part of teaching for a very long time. I am sure I could produce many quotes from Church Fathers, councils, many other popes, and out of sermons online from Catholic priests. But this will not be adequate evidence for Ray Berrian because he’s has a doctorate so he knows much more about everything than Thess. Even Catholicism. Yet he mistates Catholic teaching time and time again and continues to look foolish.

    Blessings
     
  18. BobRyan

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    And this does not include those prophets listed in Acts and in 1Cor 14. But what does this have to do with "Royal Priesthood"?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. BobRyan

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    Please note the "details" the salient points of the post from the RC source provided.

    #1. The RC priesthood "evolved" into existence.

    #2. Among The NT saints - the elders "refused to be called priests"

    #3. The RCC introduced a "gap" between the "sacred clergy" and the "profain laity" via the "magic powers" of the Priest.

    </font>[/QUOTE]What is not included here is the "persistence of the magic powers". In that teaching the RCC imagines that Priests do not "lose their powers" when they are expelled by the church. They "retain their powers" to turn bread into God.

    What is "instructive" is that the very same RC's on this board arguing that there is no gap between priests and people inside the RCC - (present legal charges not withstanding) - they knew about this "magic power retained" for the priests and they knew that the laity did not "have those powers". Obviously Thess did not think it would "help his case" to mention this.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    thessalonian,

    I do not doubt your understanding of Roman Catholicism. I guess this appears as a plus for you.

    I understand the basics of your faith. There is no reluctance for me to say that I do not know Catholicism in the depth as you do, but then non-Catholics do not major in a study of religious error and Catholic add on theology.

    Our studies were in the areas of Greek, Biblical interpretation, homiletics, hermaneutics, the attributes of God, eschatology and so on. We study the Biblical faith and not, for the most part, the various denominational distinctives including Catholicism.

    In the end faith is what each of us believes in as to what we trust to be correct.

    No ill-will intended . . .

    Cath
     

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